Hydrodec Share Discussion Threads

[capricious] 23/9/2013 10:51

Without checking the docs, the repayment of the CULs, around £13m, has to be complete by Oct/Nov 2014.

They have some time to make progress on the profit front, before going to the market or other option.


My guess is that in the UK the business model will be better than in the US, beyond that of it being motor oil.

In the US there is a lot of competition for feedstock, as a consequence, margins can become squeezed. With UK regulation, I doubt there is the same acceptable (authourised permits) after-use for oil in it's waste form, i.e burning. Plus there probably aren't anywhere near the same number of businesses in the UK to take the oil if it were permitted.

Translated, margins should not only be higher, but more stable.

[the shuffle man] 22/9/2013 21:28

Pinky I held these for a while but sold out a few months back as got bored with them as the share price was going no where despite big director buying and they can't seem to make a profit. I still believe long term they could be great especially if they can recycle engine oil a huge market. May get back in if the other ones rocket and I take a bit of profit there.Good luck

[the shuffle man] 22/9/2013 21:23

The conversion date passed without them being converted as the share price was below the conversion price (can't remember conv price) so now just debt that needs to be repaid.

[pinkalltheway] 22/9/2013 21:22

So no potential cap in the stock at 15p I believe..just a loan note ..can live with that.. I'm sure the management looking to refi or renegotiate that..

[pinkalltheway] 22/9/2013 21:04

So no cnv.. Just a loan I understand ..

[pinkalltheway] 22/9/2013 20:53

Hey shuffle.I'll check.. I know someone that WILL know.. I'm sure your right. Shuffle man we seem to have a few we both like..!!!

[the shuffle man] 22/9/2013 19:44

PinkyThe CULS are still outstanding And I think need to be repaid by 2015.

[pinkalltheway] 22/9/2013 18:37

Ah so in getting confused.. Has he paid off the previous culs

[capricious] 22/9/2013 17:30

No they are still outstanding.

Mr Black has given a 90 day loan facility for working capital expenditure to integrate the new business.

If they do not repay in the that period, which maybe a good option pre-discussed with him, Mr Black receives a charge over the assets of the new business.


The CULs (not including the later ones bought by AB) still need to be refinanced.

As said above, with this latest deal, which I believe will turn out be the steal of the decade*, the route to that refinancing has become clearer.

*I know there is still a lot of work, maybe a year, before they are in a position to apply their own tech beyond pilot phase, but baring any legislative blocks, I'm pretty confident the team can work through anything on a technical level.

And they've just added nearly 200 employees, some no doubt with invaluable technical expertise to help the process.

[pinkalltheway] 22/9/2013 16:45

I thought mr black had sorted the culs...

[capricious] 21/9/2013 10:14

I agree that the effect from the SVM short covering, isn't the reason we are rising. It was initially when we were near 8-9p and it seemed SVM were going to keep adding to their position, and the reverse happened pretty quickly. Now it is all about the potential (near term, rather than somewhere on the horizon) for real increased revenues, and that (importantly) Mr Black is there to support short term funding gaps, in order to maximise that potential.

It could also give better options to addressing the CULs issue and wider debt load long term. As I've mentioned before, if Hydrodec can integrate the business quickly, and demonstrate growth, refinancing the CULs, at least in part, from new credit lines, is a viable option.

With the UK deal, Hydrodec have filled a missing space between now and the G&S expansion. It's somewhat of a virtuous circle, the market see growth, share price rises, ultimate dilution is reduced, debt concerns ease, share price rises...

[dirty75] 20/9/2013 23:38

You'd think there's Got to be some big order sout there...

[pinkalltheway] 20/9/2013 22:53

Forget short covering that's no stock at all.. It's all about revenue..and institutions being told things about how much is in the bin.. Trust me.

[capricious] 20/9/2013 18:29

The 300k delayed transaction could've been part of the ongoing short covering.

[mattboxy] 20/9/2013 17:34

SVM Asset Management Limited HYDRODEC GROUP PLC GB00B02FJF09 0.79 2013-09-10
Latest short position as at 10th sept 0.79% but i guess they are still closing.
Nice finish today 13.13p

[capricious] 20/9/2013 16:32

... and it was a buy of 558 shares. No surely a late posted transaction, short covering or investor like Mr Black

[capricious] 20/9/2013 16:17

Great jump! I imagine something is coming through, although there is no update on the SVM short position, it could be about to change

[capricious] 20/9/2013 15:43

Wow that's good, no spread buy/sell 12.5p... well it is triple witching

[stevedd] 19/9/2013 11:04

Wonder if more shorts are being closed today.

[capricious] 18/9/2013 14:02

From the pdf

What is a Quality Protocol?

A Quality Protocol sets out end of waste criteria for the production and use of a product from a specific waste type. Compliance with these criteria is considered sufficient to ensure that the fully recovered product maybe used without undermining the effectiveness of the Waste Framework Directive and therefore without the need for waste management controls. In addition, a Quality Protocol indicates how compliance maybe demonstrated and points to good practice for the use of the fully recovered product.

The Quality Protocol further aims to provide increased market confidence in the quality of products made from waste and so encourage greater recovery and recycling.



What I'm unclear about is whether the protocol can be changed (if required), without the problems OSS had, to cover refining into a quality baseoil product.

I also wonder whether they will start to import* Superfine into the UK, since they made a point of the import licenses OSS have. Surely the resale is going to be higher here in the UK/EU, than in the US.


*Or if they do indeed need an existing protocol to actually sell refined waste oil into a new product, here in the UK, then exporting to another country would probably not require a protocol change. My comment about importing Superfine, I don't know enough about the rules, but a situation could arise that even though the country where the product was made, and is no longer legally considered waste, if the destination country does not have similar protocols, it can revert back to being considered waste.

Be nice to see a more detailed plan of the UK/EU strategy

[capricious] 18/9/2013 13:55

Lube report
www.imakenews.com/lng/e_article002788095.cfm?x=b11,0,w


And for the die hard, this doc talks about the waste oil / quality protocol


Even mentions that OSS had to take EA to court in 2007


UK trade association for recycled oils
hxxp://www.oilrecyclingassociation.co.uk/hazardous-waste-legislation/

[kendonagasaki] 17/9/2013 20:12

The Edison note should you still require it will be more than intensive on the new growth trajectory itching this industry.It will also capitulate HYDRODEC bak into the limelight.I would rather it stay undetected....but you know the old adage of you can't keep a good condo any down!

[kendonagasaki] 17/9/2013 20:08

HYDRODEC has one of the most undervalued technologies in advanced PCP recycling. It's patented and no one else can do what they can. This industry of used transformer oil will grow substantially and China, India and Russia are crying out for something as they can not get away with anymore with back door manoeuvres. I remember a less advanced HYDRODEC at 50p plus a share before we reached where we are to day.Underground, undervalued and misunderstood.This is a great place to be in. As we can only enrich ones perspective position from such a low stance.This in 18 months has patented protected technology to increase 7-10 fold from the current stance.BUY HYDRODEC?

[capricious] 17/9/2013 09:25

Edison haven't released their new note, could be they are producing a comprehensive analysis, lets hope so.

[dirty75] 16/9/2013 13:56

I'm expecting 15p plus in pretty short order. Love how Mr Black says effectviely this is what I'm spending the money I've raised from selling BET to assist the growth of HYR to all the BET investors , obvioulsy thinks there is more upside here and perhaps they should follow.