Harland & Wolff Share Discussion Threads

[loglorry1] 25/7/2024 10:49

No John I didn't think Gov would but they do do daft things, I've made a lot being short HARL and will cash out big if it goes to zero.

Currently, Miliband is killing off North Sea gas (and oil) production in favour of LNG imports which are expensive, destroy jobs, and have a carbon footprint similar to burning coal for electricity generation. That also makes no sense but they seen to be doing it anyway and it's costing tax payers way more than £200m.

If the Tories had won and it was a Torie donor who was behind Riverstone rather than a US billionaire I think there's a good chance they'd have signed off on it. Look at the Michelle Moon fiasco.

Fortunately, civil servants seem to have more sense and they know it is better to seek a perfectly sensible private solution instead.

[millennialinvestor] 25/7/2024 10:26

H&W goes down like the titanic.

[john mcinnes wood] 25/7/2024 09:27

I don't think people are being smug, did you realistically think the UK Gov would guarantee a loan of £200m knowing JW & his childish 'throw toys out of the pram' lying antics and previous history for running a business into the ground? It was an accident waiting to happen. Let Riverstone pick at the bones not the UK tax payer.

[loglorry1] 25/7/2024 09:11

Let's not be too harsh/smug. If the Gov had backed their loan the shares would have spiked up. Governments have done dafter things. I suppose buying sub 10p was a punt on that. It made no sense to me but I suppose you could make a case for it. They just have to own it and hit any bid they can (unlikely to get one).

[owenski] 25/7/2024 08:19

I think even the word 'Invest' is a tough ask for understanding to a lemming.

[loglorry1] 25/7/2024 06:59

When people loose money they always look for someone else to blame. When they make money it was always down to their good judgement and business acument.

Sharehoder action groups are just a case of the former.

If these chaps had any real belief they might get their money back they would be sitting confidently not looking for someone else to blame.

They need to (wo)man up and own it.

[dudishes] 25/7/2024 03:53

Nice one Jak,

I guess the word "subordinated" may have confused the chap?

[loglorry1] 24/7/2024 17:46

Lol! We are at the HARLSAG stage.

[john mcinnes wood] 24/7/2024 17:08

If you feel you have been misled by the HARL board please contact [e-mail] (posted from LSE). Apparently since his investment failed he feels aggrieved and wants some recompense from the board & the UK Government for stringing shareholders along with the 'promise' of UKEF funding.
Just to add he is a failed candidate for the Reform Party in the last election and probably feels hard done by that he was not elected as an MP & unable to put his snout in the trough. TOUGH.

[terminator101] 24/7/2024 08:40

Morning gerbils. Don't want to say I told you so, but I told you so. Maybe next time you will listen instead of attacking anyone who doesn't buy into the "it's amazing" narrative. At least it's been a learning experience for you even if a painful one.

[loglorry1] 24/7/2024 07:33

A D4E wont work because the market cap it too small. Furthermore it's not being proposed. The proposal is a new lender lends c£20m to keep the lights on on a super senior basis to the Riverstone loan. That, if it happens will probably keep things going long enough for HARL to be broken up and sold probably via administration. It's not coming back and shareholders are getting zero.

[bones698] 23/7/2024 03:08

Dead.shareholdwrs wil be wiped out here. Last minute finance will basically be d4e and that's if they get it. Looks like it's game over

[owenski] 22/7/2024 13:34

"After a detailed review of an application by Harland and Wolff for a UK Export Finance Export Development Guarantee (‘EDG’), His Majesty’s Government has decided not to proceed with the provision of a guarantee. This decision was based on a comprehensive assessment of the company’s financial profile and the criteria set out in our risk policies. We have also decided not to provide any form of emergency liquidity funding. While such a decision is not easy, it is my assessment, following extensive engagement by my officials with market players, that HM Government funding would not necessarily secure our objectives and there is a very substantial risk that taxpayer money would be lost. The Government believes, in this instance, that the market is best placed to resolve the commercial matters faced by Harland and Wolff."

Yep, wipe out coming. Clearly they are financially not a going concern, one wonders who on earth would place any contracts with them.

[ohdearohdearohdear] 22/7/2024 12:50

Wipeout for existing shareholders sadly.

[jaknife] 22/7/2024 11:15

Update on Harland and Wolff
Statement made on 22 July 2024



^^ The written statement is here.

[jaknife] 22/7/2024 11:10

The BBC report this morning that:

Government to explain Harland and Wolff decision


It notes that:

"The Business Secretary, Jonathan Reynolds, is due to give a written statement to Parliament later on Monday."

So I assume that it won't be read out/debated in the chamber but there is a debate scheduled for 2:30 this afternoon on "Government support for the aerospace industry in Northern Ireland" so it may be referred to.

If I've worked it out correctly though then that debate should be here:

[weaverbeever] 22/7/2024 07:52

Thanks for the lecture. Fair points. Luckily it's well below 1% of my funds. But yes I was gambling. And yes it was stupid in hindsight.

[loglorry1] 22/7/2024 07:32

Indeed its what I meant thanks. I was replying to a post that said "Riverstone would own it all" and implied through that statement, was, I assume, the fact RCOI hold senior secured debt. However as you point out they are not prepared to put in new money to protect that loan and so a new lender is to be found who will want super senior status.

[jaknife] 21/7/2024 14:16

loglorry1,

Sorry to be a pedant (would you want me any other way?).

I think that the £20m of super senior debt is coming from "Riverstone", which is the US fund manager that manages various funds under the "Riverstone" brand, eg from the Times today:

"Talks this weekend are believed to centre on agreeing a £20 million facility from the American fund to tide the business over."

See:

It's unclear which specific fund/legal entity will provide those funds but "Riverstone Credit Opportunities Income PLC" (RCOI) will not participate as that fund "has now entered into managed wind-down".

From:

Which I'm sure is what you meant!

JakNife

[loglorry1] 21/7/2024 12:55

"Make no mistake, Riverstone will own 100% of this company."

Actually it seems worse than that. Riverstone have said they are not putting up the super senior 20m as they are in wind down. So the most likely new onwers will be the new super senior lenders. Even Riverstone may be entirely wiped out.

[htrocka2] 21/7/2024 12:44

I've no doubt it'll survive in some shape or form.....that that it'll do it's current shareholders much good.

[tomboyb] 21/7/2024 07:30

Harland & Wolff lines up administrators after £200m taxpayer bailout is rejected
Vulture funds circle with shipyard owner behind the Titanic on the brink again

Sunday July 21 2024, 12.01am, The Sunday Times