Diversified Energy Share Discussion Threads

[1knocker] 21/10/2023 10:20

That sounds good to me.
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Trading in and out without being too greedy has produced just about all the favourable results I have had this year, though I have not attempted it with DEC yet.

The limit order is a wonderful device. Set and forget.

[cassini] 20/10/2023 22:59

1knocker,

Indeed I knocked 2p off my average buy price by selling on the way down, buying back in lower after it bounced then selling out again. I didn't ace it but I'll take the £400 improvement in my position that netted me over simply holding on.

Having sold out again I suppose I hope to repeat that performance as my average buy price is still up there at 98p.

It helped my decision to sell out the second time that ex-div is not for a couple of months. I was surprised at the size of DEC's rally then dump at the time of the last ex-div date.

One school of thought regarding the FTSE is that it's been rangebound for 20 years so aside from growth stocks, trading divi shares is a way to beat this sclerosis.

As you say though, DEC hasn't really demonstrated a reliable trading range so that makes trading it high risk. We'll see how it goes, it's an experiment on my part really.

[1knocker] 20/10/2023 19:37

cassini, I think there is a lot to be said for trading in and out of holdings in this market, even those intended to be LTHs. Get the cost down. Its a bit of a gamble though until some sort of a range is apparent.

I do hope 74 will not prove to be the top of an establishing range, but have to agree that even 80, never mind 100, feels rather distant at present.

[cassini] 20/10/2023 14:40

I confess I'm back out of this one (near last Friday's close at ~74.05p) as the bounce had stalled at that point and the macro situation looked fugly (and still does).

I'm thinking that, at the moment, a bit of trading of DEC instead of just holding might be a better strategy, so I'm looking for a reentry point, but today doesn't feel like it.

Trading's not my forte so I'm going to need some luck as well...as are we all I think.

[1knocker] 20/10/2023 13:46

Lab, if the brokers disclosed their instructions from their client (DEC) to a third party (you) that was a grave breach of client confidentiality. even if the information is i the public domain, better practise would have been to refer you to the company's announcements.

one might have hoped that the brokers would know that their clients' affairs should not be disclosed to the world and his wife, even if High Street bank chairwomen can't see anything wrong in disclosing the level of a customer's bank balance in a BBC interview!

[alotto] 20/10/2023 13:00

I know this may sound irrelevant but, who holds the cash for the BB?
Does DEC pay Stifel £70m one-off, for the broker to purchase shares under DEC instructions or does DEC pay the broker only when an instruction is given to place a deal?
Or does DEC cover the cost incurred by the broker at a later date, once the purchase is completed?
Or simply the broker does not see any of the cash and DEC pays directly (don't know how and who) when the deal is placed?
Reason for asking: is the cash readily available for the BB or does DEC have to scramble and source the cash from daily/periodical operating cash flow when and where available?

[lab305] 20/10/2023 11:42

Thank you Aleman.

[aleman] 20/10/2023 11:09

lab305 - Sorry, it looks like you are right. I've not seen this before and I think it feels a bit odd: a mixture of DEC buying themselves and an occasional arms length Stifle buying operation (probably when they want purchases to continue into closed periods). Your criticism of the company's buy-back timing could therefore be valid some, most or even all of the time. It would be interesting to have a bit of light shed upon this. At least a few purchases have arrived recently. I hope they prove well-timed with hindsight.

Stifel Nicolaus Europe Limited will purchase Shares under the Programme on behalf of the Company. The Company will provide instructions to buy back Shares as and when its management believes that, at the time of instruction, these repurchases will enhance earnings per Share and would be in the best interests of shareholders generally. From time to time, the Company may also provide one or more time-limited, irrevocable, non-discretionary instructions to Stifel to make trading decisions and repurchase Shares within those instructions independently of the Company. Any purchases of shares made during closed periods pursuant to the Programme shall be made independently of and uninfluenced by the Company.

[johnhemming] 20/10/2023 10:34

I think the underlying problem is that the share price is following yields in general probably through the OEIC process. Hence as yields more generally go up, the yield on DEC even though already high goes up further.

In the end long term holders (and I bought some in 2020 in the 60s) can sit and take the dividend.

@sst I am not aware that any of the DEC covenants relate in any way to the share price.

[stevensupertrader] 20/10/2023 09:59

A weak share price leads to lot of financial problems esp when companies have high debts as now 10 yrs Bond is at 16 years high and with Biden asking Congress to approve more military funding to Ukraine and Israel , Smart investors know what is coming around the corner .

[lab305] 20/10/2023 08:50

renewed1 yes that sounds about right . They have inflated them all the way from £1.44 to 72p! When should they buyback then ? 60p ? 50p ? When will people understand that a weak share price is very detrimental to the company and shilly-shallying around is costing us all dear.

[riskvsreward] 20/10/2023 08:11

If long term future is assured and invest in long term, then don't see buyback slowly is a problem. It keeps money in hand for safety and in the meantime as long as money is there, what is the problem if one can buy more back with the same money at a later date?

[renewed1] 20/10/2023 08:04

The last thing we need is the company buying back shares at a price they themselves have inflated.

[johnhemming] 20/10/2023 07:55

As far as I can tell the company buys back shares when there is some selling pressure.

[lab305] 19/10/2023 16:05

Aleman if you check the Rns you will see that Stifel are under instructions directly from Dec and not using their own discretion. This is totally opposite to what you are claiming.
There are limits on volumes but buybacks so far have never come anywhere near them. A fabricated excuse that holds no validity. If you ask the company they will also state that there are limits But when pressed that the limits have nowhere near been reached they have no argument. This is simply not good enough and the longer this flimflan continues the further the share price will fall.

[mondex] 19/10/2023 13:18

From E&E:

New climate disclosure rules coming for big companies
US companies that trade on European stock exchanges could be subject to new climate disclosure rules as early as January, with additional rules expected to take effect by 2025 that could impact more than 3,000 US companies. Many companies have already begun preparing for the EU's rules, which are more comprehensive than the Securities and Exchange Commission's proposal. The SEC is still working to finalize its approach, but will likely complete the process before the 2024 election.
Full Story: E&E News (10/17)

[stevensupertrader] 19/10/2023 12:52

No Co. Buyback yesterday , DEC falls back even with such juicy dividend .
Cannot see DEC going anywhere soon

[1knocker] 19/10/2023 11:31

DEC is riskier than the Treasury, but at 3X the return, it seems a reasonable risk to take. Fingers and toes crossed.

[cassini] 19/10/2023 10:35

US 10 Yr Treasury now 4.96%. That's a new high.

[oneillshaun] 19/10/2023 10:08

Lab305 unless they feel the share is going fall a bit more then they can buy more for less.

[t 34] 19/10/2023 09:32

What is Dec P/E ??? Must be close to 1 .

[lab305] 19/10/2023 09:04

Yep. They are sending all the wrong messages. This stop start half hearted approach is extremely damaging to sentiment . Below £1 is bad but this is deplorable.

[oneillshaun] 19/10/2023 08:05

Seems somebody has forgotten about buybacks

[cassini] 17/10/2023 11:53

Interest rates are trying to rise again - US 10Y is 4.77% right now after falling back to 4.6something late last week.

It peaked at 4.88% during the wobble a couple of weeks ago.

Given DEC's shareprice woes are clearly sensitive to rates (rightly or wrongly) I see continued weakness until the bond market stabilises.