Cineworld Share Discussion Threads

[wrecktangle] 29/6/2023 10:19

Read my last comment. This has just gone blue and there's a reason. The planned reorg may now bring in a change to the UK side of things. High risk but given that this has fallen from 700p to 0.5p, I see massive rewards.

Fortune favours the brave and it seems like theres a massive ramp coming here. Sometimes if you can't beat them, join them.

[pwhite73] 29/6/2023 09:53

Furthermore if the company was 'hopelessly insolvent' why were the shares still permitted to trade on the LSE for the 10 months from September 2022 - July 2023.

The answer is that a UK listed company cannot have its shares delisted as a result of a C11 hearing or outcome. As a consequence of this CINE has to file for administration separately in the UK and the argument used is insolvency after it has supposedly been recapitalised by its creditors.

Speak Later.

[pwhite73] 29/6/2023 09:37

WC104 - The 'hopelessly insolvent' remarked used by the judge was based on the valuation by PJT Partners who were employed by Cineworld. Cineworld then told the Texas court it tried to sell the assets but could not achieve a reasonable price to even start to address the debts. This is what C11 permits. It permits the debtor and creditors to come up with their own evidence and solutions. This is how Mookey & Co ended up with £35 million and may still yet keep their jobs.

Under UK administration the directors lose total control of the company and the administrators take over the reigns. The administrators employ independent valuation experts to asses the market value of any assets and it is the administrators who try to sell the assets to a third party not the directors.

The administrators also manage the legal fees. They decide what other legal assistance they need and the rate of costs are statutory set by the government. So the £40 million in legal fees clocked up in the US would have never been allowed in the UK courts.

These are the reasons why Mookey went for the US C11 first and not UK administration. Now that he's achieved the desired result in the US and a decent payoff he now needs to run it past the UK High Court.

[loglorry1] 29/6/2023 09:16

You know as well as I do that they are effectively being moved into NewCo as that's the new TopCo.

There are no grounds for a UK court to stop the administration. It's hopelessly insolvent.

[williamcooper104] 29/6/2023 09:16

Say you're right It doesn't magic up a hopelessly insolvent (as attested by a sale process and valuation) company into a solvent one It would just delay the inevitable

[pwhite73] 29/6/2023 09:13

loglorry1 "The assets are going to be moved from current topco to newco after first being put in the subco!"

You were trying to correct me when I said that the assets were first being moved into a subsidiary wholly owned by CINE . You said I was wrong and they would be moved into a newco.

loglorry1 - "Don't you think after paying tens of millions in legal fees they would have checked that the plan is possible/practical?"

There is no foregone conclusion in any legal hearing. The court takes into account current legislation, case law and the circumstances. The court then makes a decision.

I put the question about case law to JakNife weeks ago and I'm still awaiting an answer. I am not aware of any company registered in the UK listed on the London Stock Exchange that has been placed into administration as a result of a Chapter 11 hearing in the US. If you know of any name one.

[genierub] 29/6/2023 08:50

Investors can't seem to make their mind up about the RNS. Lots of buying but probably a bet on it becoming a MEME stock. See what the yanks do later.

[loglorry1] 29/6/2023 08:48

"and a newly incorporated company to be controlled by the Group's lenders will become the sole owner of Crown""

Yes! This is what it says. The assets are going to be moved from current topco to newco after first being put in the subco!

I'm afraid your entire theory rests on the fact that all these lawyers don't know what they are doing and will be stopped by a UK judge. Don't you think after paying tens of millions in legal fees they would have checked that the plan is possible/practical?

[wrecktangle] 29/6/2023 08:43

Super risky but if you're looking for broad volatility over the next few weeks this is the stocks. Seen it do 100% 2 weeks back in a single day when it was clear shareholders wouldn't get jack. At least this RNS shows a planned re-org, which is going to get a mega ramp i think. Only have to look at the buys and level 2.

Risk only what you can afford to lose.

[genierub] 29/6/2023 08:33

Interesting on level 2 to say the least. Not sure what's going on here....irregular buying. Is this a trading opportunity maybe? I aint touching nothing yet but if this gets a pump ill jump on it with a small amount. Added to watchlist for now.

[cambridge130] 29/6/2023 08:09

PWhite73 your 50th birthday this year then?

Well, now you've lost all your life savings I have a proposition for you!

You can go shine shoes, and you can start with mine. You shine them 'til they're like mirrors !!

[volsung] 29/6/2023 07:52

People never learn.
Shareholders are the very last in the queue in situations like this.

[genierub] 29/6/2023 07:50

And so the story ends for shareholders.

[terminator101] 29/6/2023 07:40

Thanks for playing suckers. You loose.

[pwhite73] 29/6/2023 07:37

logloopy1 - Even at this late stage you still haven't got a clue what's going on.

RNS 26/06/2023 - "It is envisaged that, once administrators have been appointed, they will take steps through which substantially all of Cineworld Group plc's assets will be transferred to its wholly owned subsidiary, Crown UK Holdco Limited ("Crown"), and a newly incorporated company to be controlled by the Group's lenders will become the sole owner of Crown"

[loglorry1] 29/6/2023 06:30

"they are moving the assets that have been rescued out of the Plc and into a subsidiary wholly owned by CINE."

No! They are moving them into Newco. It's a done deal.

[williamcooper104] 28/6/2023 22:25

The admin process is quite far advanced and coming to a conclusion You'll get nothing for your shares other than, depending on how you hold them, a tax loss

[tron343] 28/6/2023 21:56

Does anyone know what happened if shares get suspended? Administration process will kick off, but If my shares still have 5k in value... do I at leas get the value of the shares that I hold?

[cambridge130] 28/6/2023 21:50

Share price of zero by Monday

[pwhite73] 28/6/2023 21:16

Henchard - "Holders of CINE shares will receive some level of return" ... or not?"

I have been invested in enough dog companies that have gone into administration to know 99/100 shareholders receive zilch back. My line here has always been this is worth fighting for. In normal UK insolvency cases the company is put into administration first before a rescue package is agreed between the debtor, creditors and sanctioned by the court. Because CINE Plc has filed for C11 in the US everything is back to front. The debtors and creditors have agreed on a rescue package that has been sanctioned by the court and only then is the company put into administration.

Some have argued Cross Border Insolvency regulations apply here. Well they don't because CINE is not an overseas company it is registered in the UK. So by filing for administration now CINE is trying to argue it is insolvent when the rescue package is already in place. In order to facilitate this trickery they are moving the assets that have been rescued out of the Plc and into a subsidiary wholly owned by CINE. Then claiming the Plc has no assets only debt and therefore insolvent.

That has always been my gripe and why the UK courts should reject the administration application.