Cineworld Share Discussion Threads

[millennialinvestor] 05/7/2023 16:37

PWasted smoking some hard stuff me thinks.

[henchard] 05/7/2023 16:29

Are you suggesting they didn't receive any offers?

[pwhite73] 05/7/2023 16:22

Henchard - Thanks but can you please point me in the direction of any such offers and from whom. I'll be here until about 17:00. Thanks in advance for your kind cooperation.

[jaknife] 05/7/2023 16:20

PWhite73,

"That link covers the whole of the Insolvency Act. What section is 'Connected Persons' under."

Section 60A of Schedule B1



JakNife

[henchard] 05/7/2023 16:12

PWhite73,

"Cineworld its consultancy firm PJT Partners and the secured creditors have decided among themselves what the assets are worth."

They haven't decided among themselves though, have they. They invited offers on the open market from any interested party and no offer came close to returning any value to lower ranking creditors, let alone shareholders.

[pwhite73] 05/7/2023 16:11

That link covers the whole of the Insolvency Act. What section is 'Connected Persons' under.

[jaknife] 05/7/2023 15:42

PWhite73,

I fear that you have not read the definition of "Connected Person":



The test is:

1. Who is the disposal being made to? (NewCo)

2. Is NewCo and/or the shareholders of NewCo a connected person? (No)

If you don't agree then the easiest option by far is to wait for the administration and the administrator's report and see what they actually do.

JakNife

[pwhite73] 05/7/2023 15:23

JakNife - "NewCo is not a Connected person of either Cineworld Group Plc or Crown UK Holdco Ltd."

Yes it is because that is the whole purpose of Chapter 11. The directors remain in control and the creation of the NewCo is an agreement between the directors of the old company and the creditors. In UK administration it is the administrator who decides if the setting up of a new company is appropriate or if the old company can be saved. One marker the administration would use in coming to a decision is a valuation of the old company's assets in relation to its debts. Cineworld its consultancy firm PJT Partners and the secured creditors have decided among themselves what the assets are worth.

[pwhite73] 05/7/2023 14:55

JakNife - "However, the assets of Cineworld are NOT being sold to the Greidingers. The assets of Cineworld are being sold to a "NewCo"

No they are not. The assets of Crown UK Holdco Ltd are being sold to the NewCo. Cineworld Group Plc disposed of the assets to its wholly owned subsidiary Crown UK Holdco Ltd.

Cineworld Group Plc and Crown UK Holdco Ltd are two separate business companies.

[pwhite73] 05/7/2023 14:50

JakNife - "Now you were a little rude in your post 16,597 with your "Please stop wasting my time."

Yes I was and I apologise unreservedly.

[bbmsionlypostafter mk2] 05/7/2023 14:49

Ooooh, goodie! A Shareholder's Action Group!!!

That'll make all the difference.

Obviously there is no guarantee of a successful outcome...

Never a truer word spoken.

[pwhite73] 05/7/2023 14:48

bbms - I am not going to comment on my position here and never have. All I'm doing is highlighting what I believe to be illegal irregularities in this whole C11 and administration process. I am not advising anybody to buy, hold or sell. I'm merely stating the facts as I see them, what I have researched and also from experience having invested in companies that have gone into administration.

[jaknife] 05/7/2023 14:44

PWhite73,

"I am not going to bore this thread any longer with this subject. The fact of the matter is that the Greidingers are connected persons as the Cineworld Group Plc assets are being disposed of to Crown UK Holdco for which they are directors."

Yes the Greidingers are connected persons.

However, the assets of Cineworld are NOT being sold to the Greidingers. The assets of Cineworld are being sold to a "NewCo", which will be owned by the Creditors and in which the Greidingers will not have a single share.

Hence:

1. The fact that the Greidingers are connected persons is irrelevant as the sale is not being made to them.

2. There's no problem with the sale to the NewCo as the creditors are NOT connected persons.

Now you were a little rude in your post 16,597 with your "Please stop wasting my time." I forgive you but please try and keep this a little more civil.

JakNife

[edward michael jones] 05/7/2023 14:43

PWhite73 (and anyone else who believes, like us, that Cineworld's conduct has been below the required professional standard) - please consider getting in touch with our group of shareholders who are challenging Cineworld's conduct. We're in touch with law firms, the FCA and relevant government departments, and have compiled a comprehensive range of documentation and evidence. Obviously there is no guarantee of a successful outcome, but if you'd like to donate some time and energy to the cause, please get in touch here:

info at cineworld-shareholders dot com

Thanks

[bbmsionlypostafter mk2] 05/7/2023 14:35

PW,

Are you putting your money where your mouth is & taking advantage of the under 0.5p sp?

Am I correct in taking it as a given that you are buying several million CINE shares every day?

[pwhite73] 05/7/2023 14:31

I am not going to bore this thread any longer with this subject. The fact of the matter is that the Greidingers are connected persons as the Cineworld Group Plc assets are being disposed of to Crown UK Holdco for which they are directors.

[jaknife] 05/7/2023 14:27

PWhite73,

You've not actually read the legislation have you?

There are two fundamental flaws with your claim:

1. As an alternative to getting a "qualifying report" the administrator can instead get:

"the approval of the company’s creditors"

2. More importantly this legislation simply doesn't apply as the "creditors" are not “connected persons”.

The definition of connected person can be found here:



JakNife

[pwhite73] 05/7/2023 14:13

Better still this.



"Requirement as to independence"

The live issue here is that the Greindingers, PJT Partners and the secured lenders are all connected persons. They decided among themselves the assets were near worthless compared to the debts to the detriment of the shareholders and junior creditors.

From the original link.

3. Connected person

"business partner of a director of the company"

"any person or company who has control over the company, including shareholders with a third or more voting rights. This could include secured lenders"

THE VALUATION HAS TO BE INDEPENDENT OF ALL THESE PEOPLE.

[pwhite73] 05/7/2023 14:10

Try this.



"The Administration (Restrictions on Disposal etc. to Connected Persons) Regulations 2021"

[werethereisawill] 05/7/2023 13:52

PWhite73
I had my house valued years ago when I kept pointing ALL the defects because I did not want to sell !

[werethereisawill] 05/7/2023 13:43

Lth
Yet cine made 25 million profit for March /April !!?

[pwhite73] 05/7/2023 13:13

JakNife - Please stop wasting my time. Shareholders need accurate information when only days away from administration.



"5. Obtaining a report from an independent evaluator"

The Greidingers are 'connected persons' because the Plc assets are being disposed of to the wholly owned subsidiary Crown UK Holdco for which the Greidingers are also the directors by deed of them being directors of the Plc. The Greidingers are also 7.5% owners of the new company according to C11 proposals