Abrdn Share Discussion Threads

[netcurtains] 13/6/2024 10:35

At some point in JANUARY ABDN was the best performing big dividend insurance stock... Now look at it - right at the bottom (GREEN line):

[cwa1] 13/6/2024 08:29

Jefferies resumes coverage with hold rating; price target 155p vs 180p

[spud] 13/6/2024 08:08

Its only saving grace is II.spud

[amanitaangelicus] 13/6/2024 07:54

Management , fund managers lining their own pockets, taking private jets for hols ,on you of course. Broken company. Once great, now the capitalist are raping it dry. Fall from grace astounding.

[1carus] 12/6/2024 15:32

My worst performer by far... New management Please!

[spud] 12/6/2024 10:23

I'm just awaiting the inevitable t/o once the price slips to circa 100p.

spud

[skinny] 12/6/2024 09:30

This just cannot seem to stay blue!

[mcunliffe1] 11/6/2024 10:04

Then don't vote Ed Davey and the LibDems smalljohhny ;-).
They want to apply a 4% tax to BB's in the belief that the money would instead be used by the company to invest and grow.

About the only LibDem policy I can see with some merit.

[jonnybig] 11/6/2024 09:36

Desperately need a buyback here!

spud

[contrarian joe] 10/6/2024 14:53

Agree Kenmitch.For anyone buying stocks on just buybacks, are almost guaranteed to lose money overtime, "for the above reasons given", another big factor is keeping the stock elevated for remuneration purposes.It's not rocket science.

[kenmitch] 10/6/2024 14:15

Pierre

Buybacks favour sellers who have that willing buyer of their shares in ABDN. Obviously buyers can then take advantage and buy to counter that negative effect. As pointed out already there is no evidence to support your claims about the subsequent share price being supported by the buybacks.

It’s people like you making dogmatic statements about buybacks who don’t understand them. I understand them very well and learnt a lot years ago including reading Morgan Stanley’s very detailed research on them and on subsequent share prices. Their findings were a real eye opener as they found (surprisingly) that Companies who did not buyback far more often than not saw their shares outperform those in their sector that did.

Buybacks CAN work well when undertaken at bargain prices. Next is a very good example of successful buybacks. But far too many Companies including ABDN who started theirs at an inflated £5 make the mistake of buying back regardless of whether or not the share price looks too low.

[skinny] 10/6/2024 10:34

The difference here is that the buyback has been constantly chasing the price down - obviously indicating that something is fundamentally wrong - a bit like polishing a car windscreen and ignoring 4 punctured tyres.

The share price is still 30+ pence below the average price of the last season of buybacks - let alone the earlier ones!

[pierre oreilly] 10/6/2024 10:29

Lloy currently buying back half a billion shares.

How ANYONE at all can think that doesn't have a positive effect on the share price relative to if half a bill shares weren't bought is completely beyond my understanding.

To me, those who think buybacks don't have a positive effect is like them saying 1 plus 1 = 3.

[pierre oreilly] 10/6/2024 10:22

Ken

Buybacks are not taken in to account when setting share prices. It’s buying and selling

--------------------

Love it!

Yep, you got it, it's buying and selling which governs share prices.

Don't you realise that buybacks are actually buying shares? And buying shares governs the share price, as you so rightly said.

Are you sure it's me who has a misconception, because from where I'm sitting, it's you who in a few short words completely contradicts yourself!

Why are buybacks so difficult for many to understand? It's just so very simple.

[1jat] 10/6/2024 09:12

II should benefit as a SIPP provider from the news reported by the FT today that labour has dropped plans to reimplement the life time allowance. This may encourage those with larger SIPPs to continue contributing.
If pensions fall within IHT, then I can see more withdrawals to give to relatives to claim tax relief on their earnings while increasing pension contributions.

[kenmitch] 10/6/2024 08:45

pdosullivan

So you agree with Pierre as you’re entitled to obviously, but I note that you haven’t answered my earlier question about ABDN’s buybacks.Here’s that question again:-

The ABDN share price has fallen from £5 when they started their £multi million buybacks nearly 6 years ago to just £1.50 now. So can you explain how holders got a 10% risk free return please as to my eyes they’ve lost heavily with an investment in ABDN of £10000 6 years ago now worth £3000.

[kenmitch] 10/6/2024 08:43

Pierre

There’s no evidence that the share price would have dropped even more without the buybacks. Buybacks are not taken in to account when setting share prices. It’s buying and selling and news good or bad (e.g a profit warning or profits upgrade) that moves the share price. Nobody factors in the buybacks as the share prices immediately react to good or bad news at 8a.m.

There are so many misconceptions about buybacks with your point just one of them. They DO reduce share count and that means higher eps too, but that doesn’t always get reflected in the share price. E.g eps can go up but share price fall and PE go lower. Buybacks DO mean there are fewer shares to pay the dividend on. AND for Directors the big plus for them is when their bonus payments are linked to that higher eps.

[mcunliffe1] 10/6/2024 08:30

Ignoring the BB aspect because we hold very different views Pierre I can agree with you about the renaming.

You name Abrdn as adrnb in post 3211 and as Abdrn in post 3212

It isn't easy to get the name correct and that is never good.

This is not a reflection of your typing simply a consequence of a stupid name.

[pierre oreilly] 10/6/2024 05:49

Also, I'm, the larger drop at andbr than the sector in spite of the support of buybacks is due to the primary and secondary effects of effectively renaming the company from the resected Standard Life to the suicidal, moronic, insane and puerile Abdrn.

[pierre oreilly] 10/6/2024 05:44

Mcun, yes, it was logical.Try this. If there were no other trades in adnbr, would buybacks send the price up or down?. In maths terms, we are trying to find the partial derivative of the share price wrt buybacks. That is, keeping all other variables constant, then seeing what a buybacks does. Then the effects of buybacks become perfectly clear. It's hardly worthy of discussion. Buybacks drive the price higher than it would be without the buyback. If adrnb has dropped 200p during a buyback, it would have dropped more without the buyback. If it had risen 300p, then a certain amount of that would be due to the buyback and the rest due to other factors.Simply saying the price has dropped while buybacks were ongoing therefore buybacks don't work is, errr, surprising.

[mcunliffe1] 09/6/2024 21:27

Incredible logic there pdos.
Of course you'd think that.

What would you have thought was the cause had the share price actually risen?