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ABDN Abrdn Plc

-4.25 (-2.54%)
30 Nov 2023 - Closed
Delayed by 15 minutes
Share Name Share Symbol Market Type Share ISIN Share Description
Abrdn Plc LSE:ABDN London Ordinary Share GB00BF8Q6K64 ORD 13 61/63P
  Price Change % Change Share Price Shares Traded Last Trade
  -4.25 -2.54% 162.95 28,724,878 16:35:06
Bid Price Offer Price High Price Low Price Open Price
161.95 162.30 166.10 160.70 163.45
Industry Sector Turnover Profit EPS - Basic PE Ratio Market Cap
Ins Agents,brokers & Service 1.44B -550M -0.2803 -5.78 3.18B
Last Trade Time Trade Type Trade Size Trade Price Currency
18:45:01 O 2,336 162.98 GBX

Abrdn (ABDN) Latest News (5)

Abrdn (ABDN) Discussions and Chat

Abrdn Forums and Chat

Date Time Title Posts
30/11/202310:45ABRDN-Was Standard Life2,574

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Abrdn (ABDN) Most Recent Trades

Trade Time Trade Price Trade Size Trade Value Trade Type
2023-11-30 18:45:03162.982,3363,807.21O
2023-11-30 18:45:02162.973,9846,492.72O
2023-11-30 18:45:02162.9891,411148,981.65O
2023-11-30 18:02:33162.974,1466,756.74O
2023-11-30 18:02:33162.9818,28629,802.52O

Abrdn (ABDN) Top Chat Posts

Top Posts
Posted at 30/11/2023 08:20 by Abrdn Daily Update
Abrdn Plc is listed in the Ins Agents,brokers & Service sector of the London Stock Exchange with ticker ABDN. The last closing price for Abrdn was 167.20p.
Abrdn currently has 1,962,305,360 shares in issue. The market capitalisation of Abrdn is £3,181,878,141.
Abrdn has a price to earnings ratio (PE ratio) of -5.78.
This morning ABDN shares opened at 163.45p
Posted at 04/11/2023 19:33 by kenmitch

Ignoring the worn out case for or against buybacks, it’s worth pointing out that ABDN have been buying back their shares for around 6 years now, and they started with the share price at £5 and it has never been that high since. It’s now 65% lower than when they started buying back.

Also when it comes to the pricing of shares (and again regardless of the case for or against buybacks) buybacks are NOT factored in to the share price. No way are market makers or machines saying “hang on……we must remember to factor in the ABDN buybacks,” before offering buy and sell prices!
Posted at 04/11/2023 14:58 by mcunliffe1
Thanks PeterBill. I assume therefore that should they wish to 'reward' their directors even more they would need to issue shares to then gift to the directors.

In that instance, and with your pretty solid explanation Pierre the very issuance of such shares offers the prospect that, if they are sold the share price will reduce.

If we accept your logic Pierre that a company buying its own shares must cause the share price to either rise or at least to fall at a lower rate then it further follows that whilst it is dropping, as it was throughout the buy back over the past 3 months, then perhaps a temp. hold on buying-back would be sensible. Let the share price drop slightly faster, slightly further and when you judge the right time, buy more shares at the lower price and hence for the same outlay. A kind of stop-start approach. Looking at the daily RNS's as I did, in detail for a period of time during the BB that is not what I saw most days.

I think the real question is: What is the purpose of the BB?

With an investment company such as Abrdn I have ALWAYS maintained that to spend good money (our money) on a BB acknowledges that they have minimal idea in how else to invest our money.

I have said it before but it's worth stating again here; the amount of shares bought back was significant. On 31st May there were just over 2 billion shares. On 31 Oct there were 1,876,386,037 shares. They bought 125,506,703 shares in the five months since end May 2023. That reduction is well over 6% in the number of shares. Coupled with the falling share price the resulting capitalisation value helped Abrdn to exit (again) the FTSE-100.

There has to be BETTER ways to use spare money than BB's if only the management had some imagination.
Posted at 13/10/2023 08:54 by mcunliffe1
thebutler: I'm getting my info from the same place you could if you chose to look rather than implying I'm making it up.

To help, google the following "ABDN share price" and when the result is shown you'll see a graph probably showing today's share price movement. Select the Max option from the list of timescales just above the graph and you'll see what I'm seeing.

I've already posted the link that clearly reports the BB announced in Aug 2018.

Re. my not mentioning BB's - you will note that I was responding to your post number 2451 wherein you link the agressive buy-back to the share price up movement.

Fancy trying to tie the BB into today's downward movement? Or perhaps there's no link - just the market.
Posted at 10/10/2023 16:06 by pj84

Here it is, it's quite long.

"Panmure Gordon: ‘Something has to change’ at Abrdn

Analysts at the investment bank want a change of strategy from Abrdn’s management, arguing that the right calls could provide huge value to investors.


Analysts at Panmure Gordon have called for a structural overhaul of Abrdn’s (ABDN) management strategy, saying that ‘something has to change’ at the under-pressure provider.

The note from investment bank Panmure Gordon, seen by Wealth Manager’s sister title Citywire New Model Adviser, criticises Abrdn’s management decisions and recent performance and warns of the possible risks of its re-platforming project.

However, it also increases its Abrdn recommendation from ‘hold’ to ‘buy’ on the basis that the component parts of the business outweigh its market capitalisation of £3bn. It concludes that if management changes tack, the business has value for investors and its share price can rise by almost two-thirds.

Despite ‘management messaging at the interim results putting a gloss on performance to which we cannot subscribe’, the analysts said there is now a significant gap between Abrdn’s market cap and the underlying value of its assets.

‘There remains the real risk that value leaks through mismanagement, but the value gap has reopened and so opportunity is again in the share price,’ the note says.

Platform struggles

Under its CEO Stephen Bird, Abrdn’s leadership has been attempting to change the business’s reputation as a life and pensions company, in favour of a tech-focused asset manager.

However, it is facing some severe headwinds, including the recent performance of its platform business (which sits under its Adviser division), highlighted by Panmure Gordon.

Abrdn is gearing up to re-platform Elevate and FundZone adviser users onto its Wrap platform, which will be rebranded as AdviserOS. As part of this move, it launched a big software upgrade for Wrap in February, which caused issues for IFAs and contributed to it seeing a £600m net platform outflow over the first half of 2023.

The analyst note said the challenges Abrdn faces with the re-platforming could be even worse than many are anticipating. It cited NMA’s article in August that revealed that many advisers are holding off placing new platform business with Abrdn.

‘As was seen by Quilter previously, the negative impact from a technology mishap tends to be less short term than the company initially hopes,’ the note says. ‘It can take multiple quarters, if not years, before advisers regain confidence and trust in a platform.

‘The prolonged impact from technology disruption and damaged adviser relationships is likely to exacerbate the already weak relative performance of Abrdn’s adviser platform, we fear.’

Panmure Gordon says Abrdn was already losing platform market share before the re-platforming and is close to being overtaken by Quilter as the top platform by assets.

A spokesperson for Abrdn pointed to its platform business generating £103m of revenue and £49m of profit in the first half of 2023.

They also said that now its tech upgrade for Wrap has finished, the launch of AdviserOS will allow it to be a ‘key differentiator in the market’ and Abrdn will add more platform solutions for advisers including its managed portfolio service.

‘Despite the market volatility, the mid-term market opportunity remains compelling – with forecast assets under administration growth of 11% per annum,’ the Abrdn spokesperson said. ‘Using the capacity creation from our technology upgrade, we are well positioned to drive new business.’

Weak investment performance
Ever since Standard Life’s merger with Aberdeen Asset Management in 2017, the combined group, which rebranded as Abrdn in 2021, has seen its asset management arm struggle for performance and flows. Over one year, 64% of its assets are in the bottom half for performance against their peer groups, according to analysis by our sister title Citywire Amplify in June.

In July, Abrdn announced the closure of Global Absolute Return Strategies (Gars), once its flagship fund, and in April it was reported the firm was to cut 27 roles from its multi-asset team.

Abrdn’s management team laid out plans in March 2021 to focus its asset management arm on Asia, private markets and its wholesale channel, but Panmure Gordon analysts are unconvinced that this strategy has ‘achieved its aim of delivering a better flow performance’.

Excluding the assets it is losing as part of the Lloyds Swip transfer, Abrdn saw net outflows of £5.9bn from its fund management arm in the first half of 2023.

One shining light in Abrdn’s recent financials has been the performance of its direct-to-consumer platform Interactive Investor, which sits in its personal division. Interactive Investor’s revenues jumped from £40m to £115m in H1 2023.

Panmure Gordon acknowledged that Interactive Investor has performed strongly since its takeover in 2021, but added that this outperformance was driven by its cash margin, which generated £66m in revenues in the first six months of the year. The analysts cautioned that while this cash revenue is a valid source of income, ‘elsewhere in the sector, Hargreaves Lansdown is rarely praised for its revenue benefit from treasury income’.

Abrdn’s acquisition of investing community forum company Finimize was also singled out by Panmure Gordon as a ‘very poor one’. Since the acquisition in 2021, Abrdn has written down Finimize’s goodwill by £55m, wiping off around two-thirds of its original value of about £87m at the time of the deal.

Despite the challenges and missteps pointed out by Panmure Gordon in its note, the analysts believe Abrdn’s share price, which has fallen by 34% since the end of July, is undervalued by the market.

This assessment is based on a valuation of its component parts, which it aggregates to be £4.2bn, discounting any synergy between the divisions it does not believe is being seen by investors. The components are as follows:

10% stake in Phoenix, currently valued at £500m.
Surplus capital of £1bn at the time of the interim results.
Personal business value of £1.5bn, including a £1.3bn value for Interactive Investor (bought for £1.5bn).
£1bn valuation for its platform business, based on a 15x multiple.
£300m valuation of its fund management arm.

Based on these figures, Panmure Gordon believes there is significant opportunity for share price growth if the ‘board steps up’. Its price target for Abrdn is 250p per share, compared with its current price of 155.1p.

‘Whether it is this leadership team which realises the value is moot,’ the note said. ‘Reflecting the value opportunity and the need for the board to step up, we return to a buy recommendation.̵7;

Not everyone is so confident, however. Last week, two new short sellers – AHL Partners and Samlyn Capital – took out short positions against Abrdn.

Abrdn has been approached for comment.
Posted at 02/10/2023 14:50 by mcunliffe1
Ok, I'm just not getting it!

It's complex. It's not about instantly increasing the share price It's long term.


What exactly is a BB meant to achieve beyond the obvious hoovering-up of shares?

You (and others) have often stated that a BB supports the share price When we see the share price isn't/hasn't risen the claim relates to how bad it would have been without the BB.

Unsure what you'd all argue in the event of a rising share price as such hasn't happened for Abrdn in the past few years.

One very obvious result of buying back 10% of the shares with a falling share price is the resultant reduction in simple capitalisation (qty of shares times current share price) that caused Abrn to be moved from the FTSE-100 to the FTSE-250.

Another obvious result will be either an increase in the dividend (perhaps 10%) or at the least, an admission that the dividnd payout will cost less should they retain it at 14.6p next year.
Posted at 02/10/2023 14:01 by mcunliffe1
Or perhaps now is the time for these INVESTMENT companies to use our excess cash to grab their competitors shares.

Buying back your own shares clearly has not increased your own share price. Some may argue that without the BB that share price would be lower. That cannot be proven. It can be seen though that the share price has fallen steadily throughout the BB program.

Most US companies attempt to obtain a monopoly in the arena in which they operate. Strikes me that money could perhaps be better spent investing in your competition if only to divert that target company's management from their real task of running the company well.
Posted at 19/8/2023 10:00 by kenmitch
We can’t know where the price would be if they hadn’t been buying back. We can NEVER. know that for any share, not least because it’s buying and selling that moves share prices and buybacks are NEVER factored in either by computers or human market makers when share price is decided.

It’s obvious that regardless of whether buybacks overall are a good idea, it’s foolish to claim that ABRDN’s have worked! I don’t go for personal attacks but the “thick head” comment is inappropriate for Spud but is appropriate for people who can’t even understand that buybacks flowed by a 70% share price fall have NOT been a success!

They started buying back several years ago at £5 compared with 160p now and even lower 130p not that long ago. So their buybacks have been a waste of a lot of money! To claim otherwise is simply denying what the share price is telling you.

Spud has got it right. He has looked at the facts,unlike some who seem blissfully unaware of the obvious!

Buybacks CAN work well. e.g NEXT only buy back when they think the share is cheap, and not regardless of share price which is the case with so many buybacks, including ABDN where they started buying back at a high price. NEXT have halved the share count with their buybacks and their share price has soared. ABDN’s share price has FALLEN nearly 70% since they started buying back at £5.
Posted at 25/7/2023 10:31 by mcunliffe1
I'm not a chartist but I can see there's a resistance at about 238p. If it could break that then 250p seems the next one.

The amount of shares being bought lately has also reduced. I'd like to know if that is because:

a) money to spend is almost exhausted
b) there's a desire to not pay high prices (hence a possibility that share price may drop)
c) there are too few sellers

I'd like option c as this should push up the share price Skinny might have a take on how much is left in the current BB program and if that is coming to an end soon I hope the share price doesn't start to fall.

Back in July 2022 when the earlier buyback was announced the share price rose. By the end of the £150m (first part) spend the share price had fallen to approx. 180p. It seems to me that this current BB has raised the share price by 40p or so.

I'm not getting into the merits or demerits of a BB program but it will be interesting to see how the share price reacts when the program ends.
Posted at 28/6/2023 12:23 by mcunliffe1
Pierre, thanks for the pointer. There's no sarcasm involved.

You said in post 2065 that SETS should make it clear to me that buy trends drive prices higher. In post 2067 you rtefer to 'Level 2 Data'.

I'm more up-to-speed on this that I was 60 mins ago and it strikes me that Level 2 affords detailed information that is not readily available to level 1 users. But, Level 2 offers the possibility (armed with the data showing prices and volumes) to make an offer to buy (or indeed sell) at a price that may be different to the current, quoted share price

I'll digress slightly here if I may. On or about 4th May whilst sat on a cruise liner head in my cabin I used my old iPhone to connect to my ii SIPP account and I placed a buy order for £5000 of L&G shares at a price (should they drop to it) of £2.24 They did and the order was fulfilled.

Now, I accept this is not Level 2. I also accept that my paltry £5k will have little if any effect upon the share price but it may well have shown up on Level 2 screens that I was willing to buy a couple of thousand shares at a price several pence lower than the current price (at that time).

So, suppose the brokers acting for abrdn in the BB - who presumably have level 2 (like you?) elect to buy, say, 40,000 shares on a fill order at, say, 3p lower than the current share price That might well tempt willing sellers to sell albeit at 3p lower. This is good for abrdn as they get more shares for their outlay.

However, suppose the brokers elect to buy 40,000 shares at, say, 3p more than the current share price If may be filled, it may not. If it is filled then they'll get less shares for the outlay.

I honestly don't see how level 2, SETS or any other obfuscation results in a firm belief that buying back one's own shares pushes up the price......unless there are NO willing sellers or at least, far less willing sellers than buyers.

So, if you have access to level 2 data I presume you know the volume of buy orders and sell orders. I maintain that there were, upto this morning, seemingly more sellers than buyers. Interestingly, the basic Trades data on ADVFN for abrdn shows sell volume to be 2.3m shares and buy volume .8m as at 13:15 today.

Even allowing for some error that's a significant difference and one that SHOULD be driving down the share price

I suspect however that the share price was oversold yesterday and Monday and is now generally correcting itself back to where it was about a week ago.
Posted at 23/6/2023 09:33 by mcunliffe1
A quick visual check of yesterday's share buy-back details appears to show a pattern that pays no heed to the fact that the shares started to drop quite considerably after the half point base rate rise.

I'd really like to know how the brokers handling this bb for Abrdn operate. I suspect it is computer driven and quite simplistic.

I think we could all assume that the BoE was likely to raise rates at midday the only unknown being 0.25 or 0.5%.

Had the bb been paused in the morning and given that there appear to be more sellers than buyers I assume the share price would have dropped. Then, at lunchtime the BoE announcement and we see the price did drop (fact). That's when it would have been wise to restart the bb.

There's a certain perversity here. If there's a publicised, willing buyer of shares it will attract the sellers keen to exit. If there are more shares wanting to be sold than prepared to be purchased the share price should drop. That's good for the buyer but the whole premise of a share bb is to help raise the share price If the bb succeedes in its aim to raise the share price then less shares are removed from the market for a given amount of money being spent. That's a partial failure in respect of the aim to increase EPS.

I have to conclude that there's no scientifically provable logic for indulging in a bb. I have heard the argument about tax efficiency but, let's be honest, that's tosh as the brokers handling the bb will be charging abrdn for their services.
Abrdn share price data is direct from the London Stock Exchange

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