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ABDN Abrdn Plc

-1.00 (-0.69%)
14 Jun 2024 - Closed
Delayed by 15 minutes
Share Name Share Symbol Market Type Share ISIN Share Description
Abrdn Plc LSE:ABDN London Ordinary Share GB00BF8Q6K64 ORD 13 61/63P
  Price Change % Change Share Price Shares Traded Last Trade
  -1.00 -0.69% 143.15 4,487,765 16:35:20
Bid Price Offer Price High Price Low Price Open Price
142.60 142.70 144.90 141.20 144.90
Industry Sector Turnover Profit EPS - Basic PE Ratio Market Cap
Ins Agents,brokers & Service 1.55B 12M 0.0061 233.93 2.8B
Last Trade Time Trade Type Trade Size Trade Price Currency
16:47:03 O 130,507 142.754 GBX

Abrdn (ABDN) Latest News (4)

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Date Time Title Posts
15/6/202407:56ABRDN-Was Standard Life3,248

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Posted at 15/6/2024 09:20 by Abrdn Daily Update
Abrdn Plc is listed in the Ins Agents,brokers & Service sector of the London Stock Exchange with ticker ABDN. The last closing price for Abrdn was 144.15p.
Abrdn currently has 1,962,305,360 shares in issue. The market capitalisation of Abrdn is £2,800,209,749.
Abrdn has a price to earnings ratio (PE ratio) of 233.93.
This morning ABDN shares opened at 144.90p
Posted at 10/6/2024 15:15 by kenmitch

Buybacks favour sellers who have that willing buyer of their shares in ABDN. Obviously buyers can then take advantage and buy to counter that negative effect. As pointed out already there is no evidence to support your claims about the subsequent share price being supported by the buybacks.

It’s people like you making dogmatic statements about buybacks who don’t understand them. I understand them very well and learnt a lot years ago including reading Morgan Stanley’s very detailed research on them and on subsequent share prices. Their findings were a real eye opener as they found (surprisingly) that Companies who did not buyback far more often than not saw their shares outperform those in their sector that did.

Buybacks CAN work well when undertaken at bargain prices. Next is a very good example of successful buybacks. But far too many Companies including ABDN who started theirs at an inflated £5 make the mistake of buying back regardless of whether or not the share price looks too low.
Posted at 10/6/2024 11:22 by pierre oreilly

Buybacks are not taken in to account when setting share prices. It’s buying and selling


Love it!

Yep, you got it, it's buying and selling which governs share prices.

Don't you realise that buybacks are actually buying shares? And buying shares governs the share price, as you so rightly said.

Are you sure it's me who has a misconception, because from where I'm sitting, it's you who in a few short words completely contradicts yourself!

Why are buybacks so difficult for many to understand? It's just so very simple.
Posted at 10/6/2024 09:45 by kenmitch

So you agree with Pierre as you’re entitled to obviously, but I note that you haven’t answered my earlier question about ABDN’s buybacks.Here’s that question again:-

The ABDN share price has fallen from £5 when they started their £multi million buybacks nearly 6 years ago to just £1.50 now. So can you explain how holders got a 10% risk free return please as to my eyes they’ve lost heavily with an investment in ABDN of £10000 6 years ago now worth £3000.
Posted at 10/6/2024 09:43 by kenmitch

There’s no evidence that the share price would have dropped even more without the buybacks. Buybacks are not taken in to account when setting share prices. It’s buying and selling and news good or bad (e.g a profit warning or profits upgrade) that moves the share price. Nobody factors in the buybacks as the share prices immediately react to good or bad news at 8a.m.

There are so many misconceptions about buybacks with your point just one of them. They DO reduce share count and that means higher eps too, but that doesn’t always get reflected in the share price. E.g eps can go up but share price fall and PE go lower. Buybacks DO mean there are fewer shares to pay the dividend on. AND for Directors the big plus for them is when their bonus payments are linked to that higher eps.
Posted at 09/6/2024 20:39 by pdosullivan
The buyback hasn't been the only determinant of the ABDN share price. Other asset managers have suffered similar declines to ABDN. But I would argue that if management had not pared the share count, there would be a lot of chatter about a cut to the dividend. And that would almost certainly drive the share price lower. Hence the buyback has been share price positive to my mind.
Posted at 09/6/2024 14:11 by mcunliffe1
Reading the 'paid for' pinned posts from thebutler at the top of this thread sums it up. The "desired effect"? "200p by Xmas"?

Which Christmas?

kenmitch, I've debated BB's on this and many other threads too many times. I have to say, it is easier to examine the suitability of the BB from a position of hindsight. Clearly, when a BB is announced the hype, the hope is for a success. And sometimes it is. Any such success may have been as a total or even partial result of the BB but perhaps a rise in the share price would have occured anyway.

Now, a severe drop in the share price during a BB is not a pretty sight. I will state it now before the cheerleaders for BB's try to state it, the share price may have fallen even faster had there not been a BB.

But, to answer YOUR specific question, well, I find that quite simple.
Your question was:

So can you explain how holders got a 10% risk free return please as to my eyes they’ve lost heavily with an investment in ABDN of £10000 6 years ago now worth £3000.

The answer: They Have Notgot a risk-free return of 10%. To be fair, pdosullivan used the phrase 10% yield and I should point out that providing the dividend doesn't change in value and the share price declines the yield of course increases.

But, is there enough money left to pay a dividend because, as stated:

cash cost to Abrdn of this dividend was GBP279m in FY23 versus GBP307m in FY22
so for the splurge of about £300mn the divi cost is reduced by £28mn. A 9.333% return on the splurged capital if you subscribe to the economics of the madhouse.

Me, I stuck £18k into Rolls Royce instead. If only I'd put £300mn into RR.
Posted at 09/6/2024 09:27 by kenmitch

The ABDN share price has fallen from £5 when they started their £multi million buybacks nearly 6 years ago to just £1.50 now. So can you explain how holders got a 10% risk free return please as to my eyes they’ve lost heavily with an investment in ABDN of £10000 6 years ago now worth £3000.
Posted at 23/1/2024 12:45 by mcunliffe1
That's interesting CWA1. Thanks.

It has been stated on this thread in the recent past that there's a great deal of unease within the company and further, it's been stated that there's a lot of inefficiency.

I suspect Bird will not be kicked out of the nest.

It will be interesting tomorrow opening if ABDN share price drops below 150. I might be tempted to help the company with a small buy-back of £5k ;-)
Posted at 04/11/2023 14:58 by mcunliffe1
Thanks PeterBill. I assume therefore that should they wish to 'reward' their directors even more they would need to issue shares to then gift to the directors.

In that instance, and with your pretty solid explanation Pierre the very issuance of such shares offers the prospect that, if they are sold the share price will reduce.

If we accept your logic Pierre that a company buying its own shares must cause the share price to either rise or at least to fall at a lower rate then it further follows that whilst it is dropping, as it was throughout the buy back over the past 3 months, then perhaps a temp. hold on buying-back would be sensible. Let the share price drop slightly faster, slightly further and when you judge the right time, buy more shares at the lower price and hence for the same outlay. A kind of stop-start approach. Looking at the daily RNS's as I did, in detail for a period of time during the BB that is not what I saw most days.

I think the real question is: What is the purpose of the BB?

With an investment company such as Abrdn I have ALWAYS maintained that to spend good money (our money) on a BB acknowledges that they have minimal idea in how else to invest our money.

I have said it before but it's worth stating again here; the amount of shares bought back was significant. On 31st May there were just over 2 billion shares. On 31 Oct there were 1,876,386,037 shares. They bought 125,506,703 shares in the five months since end May 2023. That reduction is well over 6% in the number of shares. Coupled with the falling share price the resulting capitalisation value helped Abrdn to exit (again) the FTSE-100.

There has to be BETTER ways to use spare money than BB's if only the management had some imagination.
Posted at 13/10/2023 09:54 by mcunliffe1
thebutler: I'm getting my info from the same place you could if you chose to look rather than implying I'm making it up.

To help, google the following "ABDN share price" and when the result is shown you'll see a graph probably showing today's share price movement. Select the Max option from the list of timescales just above the graph and you'll see what I'm seeing.

I've already posted the link that clearly reports the BB announced in Aug 2018.

Re. my not mentioning BB's - you will note that I was responding to your post number 2451 wherein you link the agressive buy-back to the share price up movement.

Fancy trying to tie the BB into today's downward movement? Or perhaps there's no link - just the market.
Abrdn share price data is direct from the London Stock Exchange

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