Plus500 Share Discussion Threads

[whiskeyinthejar] 25/10/2016 11:51

To be clear, Im not talking about a bonus, only my own money. Any high street bookie would not present the same problems withdrawing money.

The fact that PLUS have formalised how they obstruct customers from removing their own money is not a point in their favour imo.

[sailing john] 25/10/2016 11:35

If they actually bothered to read the T&Cs they would understand all that!
In particular the bonus's offered by most CFD providers and by all betting operators come with strict T&Cs that can make it difficult to earn the bonus and can restrict withdrawals even of non bonus cash but this is clearly stated. Most complaints I have seen relate to such issues

I currently have no position in PLUS

[whiskeyinthejar] 25/10/2016 11:24

I tried PLUS.

I knew the reputation so first thing I checked after I deposited money was that I could take money out again.

Result was over a month of me sending emails and them fobbing me off with questionnaire attachments. Which sector am I employed in? Have I been convicted of any crime? On and on.

All I asked was that they reversed the money back the way it came. I made no trades.

There was no telephone number for support. Their chat facilities were always down. All the responses I got were pidgeon English from Cyprus.

This contrasts with IGG who phoned me up to confirm I understand the risks involved and transferred money with no obstacles.

So got money back from PLUS eventually, but I never placed a trade. PLUS just smelled bad.

My current broker offers no leverage but makes his money by executing trades and giving advice. Very different to PLUS and IGG.

Anyway, it's a growing problem because gamblers and less sophisticated customers are I think often put off the relative complexity of financial markets, CFDs and spreadbetting. But with new binary options products, its just place your bets on black or red. In a way, its too simple. Or rather too accessible.

IGG has its victims too. But underlying the high PLUS customer churn rate is a high number of punters who have lost the savings for a holiday, lost the rent money, cash borrowed from family to buy car to get to work etc. So what we end up with is a growing social problem .

I don't mean to lecture, Ive invested in gambling companies too. But I want to say problem is people may understand dangers of gambling and understand roulette, betting etc are gambling but PLUS products are not flagged sufficiently as gambling products.

I think you should expect greater scrutiny here. Most gambling is under increasing regulation pressure, I see the same here happening as some of the complaints online will be reflected in MP surgeries etc and eventually legislation.

[lydnem] 25/10/2016 10:03

It is completely different. There is no comparison

This is effectively an offshore bookies that make their own prices to ensure good profits. You only have to look at all the forums slating them to see that

You do not see the same for IG.

[sailing john] 25/10/2016 09:19

For info from Plus's 2015 annual report.

"In 2015 there were no revenues from market P&L (FY
2014: 1%). This reflects the effectiveness of the hedging
arrangements."

[shanklin] 25/10/2016 08:35

Lydeum

I don't disagree with anything hpcg has stated re IGG. So I am not sure how I can be wrong in that respect.

Obviously the second paragraph in my post 10917 is correct but you haven't commented on that.

[lydnem] 25/10/2016 08:23

shanklin, you are so wrong, as HPCG stated

Plus dont hedge until their exposure is $40m

They make money out of a bet where if they win they get 100% and if the client wins they get about 85%

It is nothing like IG. Plus makes money out of its clients losing.....like a bookie.

[shanklin] 25/10/2016 07:16

hpcg

Thank you for your comments. I agree its better to build up long-term customer relationships.

Interesting that AIUI at PLUS it is impossible to lose more money that whatever one has deposited with them whereas with IGG, if one takes up the wrong bet such as on the CHF a little while back, one can get one's whole life destroyed by huge margin calls.

[hpcg] 24/10/2016 17:15

Shanklin - IGG and PLUS work completely differently. IGG does not take on risk and will either hedge with the securities, or hedge within its own book. I understand that it does rank customers and so new fresh meat does get treated differently if and until they consistently make money. It will quite frequently not have an open market whether that is short or long. It makes money on spread and borrow. On the other hand PLUS will take any business because it knows that ultimately its customers will lose all their money. It makes money directly from its customers, not as a bi-product of its customers activities. Hence the relentless marketing spend to over come customer churn.

[freddie ferret] 24/10/2016 15:42

Very good point.

[shanklin] 24/10/2016 15:27

freddie

Yes, I can well believe that's true.

On a separate tack, and thinking about PLUS in terms of GBP, it is worth remembering that a year ago, 1 GBP = $1.53 whereas its now $1.22. So in Sterling terms, revenue is massively up, as I presume is profitability

[shanklin] 24/10/2016 14:50

There's really no difference between PLUS, IGG, Spreadex etc. They're just making a market in financial products.

[hpcg] 24/10/2016 14:34

I have just started shorting this again. Investors don't care about the morality of the company when the numbers are good, but ultimately the way it treats its victims, er customers, will feed through into the accounts. The chart looks pretty broken now and with the price still high, fundamentals, technicals and ethics aligned, this should work its way back down over time. Caution still needed of course as this is one where a surprising takeover approach could be made.

[tsmith2] 24/10/2016 11:02

Founders selling then slow down red flag ahoy

[lydnem] 24/10/2016 08:57

Given they have only stated that they will withhold from selling any more shares for 90 days, it seems to me just like a matter of time now until the next jolt when they bail again.

[sailing john] 24/10/2016 08:43

TS as expected - no surprises
But with volatility currently low I sold my current smaller position (having bought back a few post Founder/Director sales)
Remains on watch for another opportunity to trade
GL - SJ

[fenners66] 24/10/2016 08:22

To be fair the comparison suffers compared to 3/4 last year.

[togglebrush] 24/10/2016 07:28

Q3 trading update Actual:
Revenue:_________USD 77.5m
New customers:____25,083
Active customers:_69,989
ARPU:___________ USD $1,107
AUAC:___________ USD $1,300
'
Synopsis
another consistent quarter's trading, in line with half year
experience strong growth in new and active customers
generated record revenues year to date.
improvement in the EBITDA margin.
increased its global presence. new licences in Israel in New Zealand
emphasises the importance put on compliance best practice

[planelondon] 22/10/2016 16:42

Q3 trading update forecasts:
Revenue: USD 77.3m
New customers: 24,800
Active customers: 68,800
ARPU: USD 1120
AUAC: USD 1510

[freddie ferret] 21/10/2016 17:38

Monday we see.

[lydnem] 21/10/2016 08:40

No need to wait for you ratboy................we already know!