Deltex Medical Share Discussion Threads

[arf dysg] 27/6/2016 14:56

Well, the NRA is basically living in the Republicans' pants.

..or vice versa.

[yump] 27/6/2016 12:45

Some conspiracy theories have some credible evidence though.

For instance, there's a suspicious similarity between the argument style that comes from Republicans, the NRA and the more extreme leave campaigners.

I think we should be told.

[arf dysg] 27/6/2016 10:44

How things change: not so long ago, we were worried about Grexit.

Brexit won because there are a lot of people who read The Daily Mail (and similar rags) and believe every word. Then similarly-inclined people do "research on the internet" and discover a new conspiracy every day. Having marinated their minds in such a strong mixture of paranoia and fantasy, they are then asked about the EU and their voting arm twitches all the way to the EXIT box.



...then there's David Icke and the Lizard People, but that's a small minority - AT LEAST I HOPE SO!!!

[zho] 26/6/2016 16:14

>>Most worrying of all for me though, is that 75% of the young voted to stay in>>

Hi TC,

Yes, but data released yesterday suggests that only 37% of 18 - 25 year olds voted.

[cisk] 26/6/2016 14:09

The count,

Yours is one of the few posts on this matter that I agree with 100%. Putting aside my feelings on the results, and my resultant feelings on being British thereafter, I concur that leave did not expect to win and indeed was totally surprised by it. I suspect if the vote was re-run tomorrow we would get a different result.

The close vote to leave has triggered a tsunami of undesirable (but pretty much forecastable to those that gave the entire vote balanced consideration) consequences, which have only just begun.

Will the UK be better or worse off in the long run? I really have no idea. What I do know is that uncertainty is what damages markets the most. We now have years of uncertainty ahead.

However we are where we are. I found this interesting post - who knows and only time will tell if it's true - but it's interesting nonetheless:


Good luck to all DEMG holders. Hopefully we'll continue to make progress this year, even against a backdrop of turmoil.

[the count] 26/6/2016 13:06

--->DOGLOVER2003

I don't really much want to get dragged into all this, but I have read the exchanges with interest. I have as much uncertainty as the next man as to where we go from here though.

I think the sort of positive response from Europe (that you spoke of) would have been achieved anyway simply with a close result, but favouring the remain side. It would have pressured the Eurocrats even further, along with the rise in far right parties throughout Europe, but without all the upheaval and uncertainty caused in the last few days along with the potential upheavals that may be still to come.

We have years of bargaining ahead, whilst all the time being in a black hole because it is all uncharted territory. We rely now on the goodwill of all parties to sail us through what may turn out to be stormy seas ahead. A one day drop in markets followed by a partial recovery is not the end of the reaction... it may be just the beginning.

What has the EU done for us you may ask? Well, if there was no advantage for us being in, why are many large financial institutions in the UK already talking of moving out chunks of their operations to cities such as Dublin, Paris and Frankfurt? Why did Nissan decide to build cars here in the UK in order to reach into Europe?

This may indeed all turn out to be a storm in a teacup, but the uncertainty is very damaging and will continue to be so for quite a while to come.

I wonder if the exit side were really prepared for taking power rather than expecting to get just a large protest vote. The power vacuum created already is worrying and may well affect our markets tomorrow. The lack of any direction from them is also worrying. It just points further to indicating that they didn't expect to win.

Most worrying of all for me though, is that 75% of the young voted to stay in and they now see that a bunch of oldies, many with one foot in the grave already, voted more on their old prejudices and pining for a romantic bygone world that they think they can bring back to see out their few remaining years and to hold on to, as Wiggy says, their ivory towers. The young feel that the old in the main (even though this is a big generalisation I know), have taken away the best part of their future opportunity for now.

It will be interesting to see how this plays out politically in future, as an ever aging population will come to rely more and more on a younger generation to service them and keep their wealth intact, whilst all the time, the younger generation will view their opportunities being vastly reduced by mistakes made by that older generation and them having to carry that burden.

IMO, Europe was broken, but the world is moving towards greater trading blocs to make commerce and trade easier. We did have a big voice from inside the bloc, the Eurocrats were being forced to wake up, especially over the migration issue and the rise of far right politics. We could have continued to influence decision making from within.

Instead the country is divided as never before, and we will probably see the break up of the Union. I just hope that in the uncertainty of what lies ahead, that the world does not get damaged much further on top of the
$3 trillion damage that has occurred already.

Regards,

THE COUNT!

[wigwammer] 26/6/2016 11:42

Hidden dangers lurking in Europe..Get your tin hats on people.

[doglover2003] 26/6/2016 10:06

wigw

So our difference of view is reduced to the depth of the water.
That probably provides some clarity as to the nature of the decision that was taken last week.

Remain believed that a small pipe would quickly clear the excess water and all would be clear.

Leave saw hidden dangers lurking below the water and decided that more fundamental policies were required to prevent sinking.

[wigwammer] 26/6/2016 09:32

DL -Then again if your standing in two inches of water without boots, best not jump into the bog next to it.The world has bigger problems, it was sort of recovering, why rake up old prejudices now.

[doglover2003] 26/6/2016 09:00

wigwammer

If you are sinking waist high in mud there is no elegant or easy way to leave.
However, reaching solid land will be all the more welcome.

Would you prefer to carry on sinking ....... ?

[wigwammer] 26/6/2016 08:27

"In conclusion, I feel confident that if you keep a record of this exchangeYou will find that the unfurling of the next 5 years will approximate moreclosely to my view of the situation than to yours or the Remain campaign."I am sure you will be watching it unfurl from the comfort of your ivory tower.In the meantime, it will be left to others to bear the true burden of the uncertainty. What a mess has been left to us.

[doglover2003] 26/6/2016 07:30

This is the kind of POSITIVE response one can expect from BREXIT now from French economy minister Emmanuel Macron. Fundamental change in one of two directions will be expedited.

* Deep political integration of core group AND/OR
* reversion to economic free trade zone and retreat from political aspiration

A two speed Europe is possible provided that the two groups carry equal status.
This transformation could be achieved by European political institutions morphing into the equivalent of the House of Lords which would provide a body of experts in all fields but carry no constitutional legitimacy by democratic control.

In response, some EU politicians have called for speedy reforms to quell further unrest.
French economy minister Emmanuel Macron suggested a new mission statement should be drafted and put to a referendum of all EU citizens.
"We've never had the courage to organise a true European referendum in its real sense," he told a conference.
"We would first build this new project with European peoples and then submit this new road map, this new project, to a referendum [across the bloc]."

But will turkeys vote for Christmas?

[doglover2003] 25/6/2016 23:55

The EU failures

1) The EURO
2) Shengen

Both stem from the same flawed European model.

The EURO single currency was introduced without a central fiscal authority
capable of making transfers to member states whose economies were failing
and were unable to respond by altering the value of their currency by devaluation. This made it inevitable that problems would occur which required a FIX or would result in social unrest or worse. Crises thus become the new norm.
Failure of members to agree on such central fiscal authority caused the need for such a compromise to obtain any agreement. Basically, Germany did not want to bank roll those irresponsible southern European members.However, it still wanted them as customers!

Shengen suffers from the same compromise arrangement. The logical inference from the removal of internal borders is that the cost of protecting borders be shared. So, is it a surprise that the stunted Greek economy could not bear the cost. Power talks and the rich states would not agree to reach into their pockets.

The good intentions behind the formation of the European Coal and Steel Community morphed into the creation of a superstate which became a graveyard for failed politicians.

The Kinnocks reportedly made £10 million plus from the EU following a brilliant career in UK politics where Lrd Kinnock never managed to lead thew Labour Party into government. He is one of the 10,000 EU officials who earn more than David Cameron.

What a disgrace.

[february 30th] 25/6/2016 22:45

The EU engenders stability while it is stable. There has been a long period of stability, and now it's coming part at the seams. It has nothing to do with Brexit. As far as military stability is concerned, that might be connected with NATO rather than the EU. However as I've said, the EU has institutionalized a fundamentally corrupt, kleptocratic structure withing Eastern Europe. If the EU had stayed out of Eastern Europe, and better still the Wall hadn't fallen in 1989, then the European project might have had some chance.

[doglover2003] 25/6/2016 22:16

Supern

A long post deserves a long reply.
I will be back a little later.

Nice that we have some measure of agreement

By the way I failed to convince anyone f my Brexit position.

[wigwammer] 25/6/2016 22:15

Feb - the EU engenders stability. Check the markets.

[wigwammer] 25/6/2016 22:04

I wasn't born when doggy holidayed in Russia in 1966.Why did his generation get us into the EU if it was such a bad idea?Why did his generation take so long to say they wanted out? (look at the demographics)Why have they left it to younger generations to bear the uncertainty of leaving?Perhaps doggy and pals have now paid off their mortgages, and now live somewhere not quite on this planet.

[february 30th] 25/6/2016 21:43

The EU has not spread parliamentary democracy across Europe. Having spent a fair amount of time in East and Central Europe, what the EU has done is legitimized a once and for all transfer of wealth from the state to well-placed private individuals and companies. Indeed the people who benefited the most from the fall of Communism were the communists themselves. The Communist attitudes and structures still exist. People are afraid of expressing their opinions, they believe they are being watched. The communists have been replaced by a kleptocratic mafia. The wealthy in East Europe have by and large made their money through theft, rather than entrepreneurism. There are no Tomas Batas any more. It's been 27 years since the fall of Communism, and the region has not really changed, at least outside the capital cities.

Do people know they can urge their MP's to ignore the referendum and vote as they see fit? That's still democracy in action- this isn't the end of a process, it's the beginning.

Yes, that's true. But any Labour MP in an English or Welsh constituency which voted for Leave who voted for the referendum to be ignored would lose their seat their seat at the next election. Furthermore, if parliament ignored the referendum, the far right would explode into action.

[doglover2003] 25/6/2016 21:13

Supern

Sanctions have little or no effect in autocratic states.
Just look at North Korea if you don'y accept this proposition.
How much "pain" do you think Putin feels from sanctions.
Has it changed his behavior? I am not saying that sanctions are uselss
but that their value is limited if not backed up by at least the threat
of a more aggressive response.

As regards the Yorkshire Post article, this demonstrates very well the
insidious way in which the EU issues patronage to curry favour for its institution. They bribe us with our own money! Is it any surprise that the
LEAVE side resort to similar tactics. It really is unworthy for organisations
to plead the Remain case based on their own selfish interest which they know
is funded by UK citizens. Your acquaintance in Cambridge area should indeed decamp to the EU if her research is EU focused. If not she should stop winging.
I know someone who trades with most of the EU states and he is livid that he will have to register for VAT in each of the member states individually rather than just from UK. The alternative is to decamp to Switzerland. Such situations are unavoidable when you decide that you want change course. If you were intending travelling to Aberdeen and then changed your mind and headed for St austell your map of Scotland which you paid for can be binned ( or filed away for another trip).

BREXIT is a wake-up call for Europe. If one of the most significant members decides to leave there must be something very wrong and tinkering with the rules
will be of little use. Europe has a future if it ditches the EU and replaces it with a free trade area and voluntary associations to promote other goals.