Woodford Patient Capital Share Discussion Threads

[minerve] 24/12/2017 21:43

I'd rather be a "Ouancoeur avec Grande Tête" than a Air Marshall avec un petit pénis et pas d'argent.

Good luck next year, you will need it.

[p1nkfish] 24/12/2017 15:02

So very, very true.

“The problem with the world is that the intelligent people are full of doubts, while the stupid ones are full of confidence.”
― Charles Bukowski

Look at the volatility on WPCT and compare to IPO and the now acquired IVO.
Picture becomes a little clearer then.

[the air marshall] 24/12/2017 14:01

If you can pronounce the French language, and I'm pretty sure you can, just say it out loud!

[kpo115] 24/12/2017 13:58

Very funny. But I don't get the prize won by Minerve?

[the air marshall] 24/12/2017 13:48

“The problem with the world is that the intelligent people are full of doubts, while the stupid ones are full of confidence.”
― Charles Bukowski


Since it is near the end of the year it's time to list the Awards of the Year



TROLL OF THE YEAR:

Rackers1

MOST UNINTELLIGENT/UNINTELLIGIBLE POSTER:

Liquid kid (posthumous)


Ouancoeur avec Grande Tête:

Minerve


MOST UNSUCCESSFUL SMALL INVESTOR:

Rackers1

BUY HIGH SELL LOW CRITERIUM:

Pugugly


DONNY TRUMP FAKE NEWS PURVEYOR:

harveydeee

GOTCHA DOUBLE ROSETTE (caught with pants down and pants on fire):

The Oxford Whale

MOST DOWN-TICKS FROM VALIDATED VOTERS:

Rackers1

MOST INEFFECTIVE TROLL:

Rackers1

Runner-up

Liquid kid (posthumous)

Runner-up to runner-up

Pugugly

[kpo115] 24/12/2017 13:23

Ooh dear! The small unsuccessful punters who bought WPCT at the top and who are now selling at a huge loss are really hurting. They come on here in droves to persuade others to join them. LOL.

Surely they know that the large majority of small "investors" statistically never make any money overall on the stock exchange? It doesn't stop them boasting to their wives, fellows at the golf club, blokies down the pub, and other unfortunate small investors on ADVFN (and other social media) that they are making money hand over fist!

Sure, there are some successful small investors but they are, by definition, the intelligent ones who don't waste everbody's time by posing as experts here and telling other people what do do.

LOL LOL LOL.

[riverman77] 24/12/2017 11:48

Interesting and compelling article. I think unless Woodford has a big slice of luck very soon - i.e a couple of his unquoted positions suddenly taking off - this could be curtains for him. His main equity fund has shrunk from around 10bnto 8bn, but could easily fall to 2-3 bn if inflows pick up. Given that around 15-20% of the fund is in relatively illiquid holdings... well I don't need to spell this out. And I did also notice that he is now dumping illiquid stocks into the income focus fund so must be getting really desperate. I very much hope he can turn it round as I am a big fan, but fear for the worst.

[pugugly] 24/12/2017 08:51

Funny how all the stale bulls who used to attack the realists have crawled back into their holes and gone silent from embarrassment as proved wrong (short term at any rate)

Could TW have been following the realists on this thread and agreed. So has now put the final nails in their coffins ?? Adieu to The Air Marshall, Mochyn and their “false news” followers.

To all fellow realists – Have a great Christmas and prosperous New Year – As always it will bring its own opportunities and crashes – nothing is preordained except that for many The Only Way to make a small fortune on the Stock Market is to start with a Large One –

Have fun in 2018 – Remember do not play unless you can afford to lose.

[rackers1] 24/12/2017 07:41

Strikes me that Woodford along with Anthony Bolton and his China fund he opened over 10 years ago bit off more than they could chew with this fund. Terry Smith he ain't.

[harveydee] 23/12/2017 22:42

The ShareProphets article shows that wpct's debt has ballooned as NW kept increasing his borrowing limits, and the Woodford co. board just acquiesced each time. Wpct now has over £143m of debt and it appears from the latest updates that NW has used his highly conservative Income Focus Fund to buy shares from wpct (from its holdings in Prothena, Purplebricks and Allied Minds) in order to give wpct a much-needed cash infusion. Is this is true, and the Income Focus fund has ignored its "focus" in order to help out little brother, then some very serious questions need to be answered by NW !

[jonwig] 23/12/2017 20:55

The articles on WPCT and its relationship with the Income fund seem authentic to me. If so, trouble is brewing.

There's nothing new under the sun, though. Investors of a certain age will maybe remember the floatation of the Slater Walker Dual Trust in 1972, nicknamed "the dustbin" because its investments were the dumping ground of companies which had gone sour on SW.

[topvest] 23/12/2017 20:38

Think Tom is spot on. I did flag this month's back. There is a major problem brewing here in my view simply because you should NOT mix debt with cash negative start-up investments and illiquid shares. Its a basic schoolboy error. What a disaster! Not helped by the fact that Woodford paid top-dollar on the whole portfolio. This will struggle to survive the bear market Woodford is projecting!

[harveydee] 23/12/2017 19:28

The series of articles about Woodford and his funds, including wpct, published today and last few days on Shareprophets.com is another nail in the coffin. There will be another article tomorrow. The author is piecing lots of things together and raising very legitimate concerns about the way the funds are being operated - individually and collectively. He notes that wpct in particular has now taken on way too much debt and is soon going to need some sort of emergency refinancing. NW is in desperate need of checks and balances on his executive decisions but this has been woefully lacking. I strongly recommend that people read them: hxxps://www.shareprophets.com/views/33435/woodford-patient-capital-trust-the-big-short-chapter-2-the-debt-and-liquidity-crisis

[prewar] 23/12/2017 14:19

Thanks jonwig, thought that was the case, the inference from posting the article on this thread was that woodford was making off like a bandit on the back of poor performance here. He's not, I'd like to see similar charging mechanisms on more funds.

[jonwig] 23/12/2017 12:19

@ mazarin, prewar - from the prospectus:

The Portfolio Manager has agreed not to receive a management fee
from the Company in respect of its services provided under the
Portfolio Management Services Agreement. The Portfolio Manager
is entitled to receive a performance fee equal to 15 per cent. of any
excess returns over a cumulative 10 per cent. per annum hurdle rate,
subject to a high watermark ...

So zero is your answer.

And further, again as described in the prospectus, "Patient" refers to the policy of the fund manager and not to the investor in the fund, who can trade in and out at will. Why not trade the discount?

And as for unreal expectations, you are not alone. Look at the initial double-digit premium on float, and subsequent disillusionment. You can certainly blame Woodford, who was ubiquitous in financial media in early spring 2015. The prospectus might contain all the right risk factors but in interviews I don't think he mentioned them at all.

[prewar] 23/12/2017 11:58

Can somebody provide the amount of revenue that Woodford made from the WPCT fund, this thread is related to that particular fund.

TIA

[mazarin] 23/12/2017 10:28

This has got to be the most depressing thread I've ever had the misfortune to read, I dread reading it. As its been nothing but a continual series of 'moans' and groans since July. And as for the 'fortunes....? of WPCT, I can usually squarely blame myself when my investments spectacularly fail to make money, but in this case, I 'could' blame others more far experienced than my myself, but the simple fact is nobody told me to be a 'Patient' holder. I thought last year, with Woodford's experienced Team and successful past record, its eventually got to 'turn around' sometime. Unfortunately, so far it hasn't. At least he's making money out of it.....!

[bdog51] 23/12/2017 09:44

" This banked Woodford £7.2 million personally.."Really? For doing what? Losing shareholders hard earned cash?

[ttg100] 23/12/2017 09:15

from Citywire
Woodford's firm nets £22.9m profit in six months
link
hxxp://citywire.co.uk/money/woodfords-firm-nets-22-9m-profit-in-six-months/a1079414

[harveydee] 21/12/2017 16:19

Don't worry, not long till it's a 20% discount. After all NW's missteps and the very dangerous nature of such an illiquid fund, a 20% discount is necessary for this one. At least until he shows clear evidence that his reckless strategy is starting to come good.