Versarien Share Discussion Threads

[laginaneil] 13/10/2018 07:15

Hello Lucky,
Good to see some up early!

I see on Neill's twitter someone saying approx 2% of VRS on loans for shorts.

I checked with my broker, ii, sometime back and they say they do NOT loan out.

How do you persuade Pis to check this? Surely it is in a Pis LTH interest to find
this out and change broker?

What am I missing here, first year at this share malarky - lol

[luckyorange] 13/10/2018 06:45

Funny when you start to look around what you find out that you were not aware of and should have been :-

Primary Bid, I was aware that Darwin Strategic (that name will send shivers down the spine of some ) were involved with the PB setup, what I didn't know was that LO (Lombard Odier) have controlling interest of Darwin!



Now it all makes sense 😒

[shavian] 13/10/2018 06:42

REDCHEF: see my post 40019. Ask HL if they will do a ‘cash for asset swap’, exchanging VRS shares in your SIPP account for cash in your trading account (GIA). Then one can do a Bed & ISA in specie into the ISA. NAI DYOR

Johnveals: I’m in the same boat as you. What a terrible problem to have! :0)

[redchef] 12/10/2018 23:54

I asked the same question of HL where I have my Sipp and USA. You can B&B from ISA to SIPP but not the other way round because of the different tax rules for the two products

[johnveals] 12/10/2018 23:41

mikeod - I have this problem having not taken my wife's IAS allowance for this tax year. What I plan to do is use a spare £20k to buy more VRS shares in my wife's ISA, I messed up with transferring the cash and was not able to buy the dip (!), then sell VRS in my SIPP and take that as tax free income. I am comfortable with my current level of VRS exposure.

I am at risk of hitting the LTA if VRS does half as well as predicted and each year I want to take as much as possible out of my SIPP and transfer into my and my wife's ISA.

The advantage of doing this is the opportunity to buy the dips and sell the highs whilst effectively transferring the shares, if you have a spare £20k.

[johnveals] 12/10/2018 23:29

willoicc and sandbag

Ref SIPP drawdown. Your description fails to take into account the Lifetime Allowance, currently at £1,030,000 iirc.

Most people will not reach the LTA but if you do the tax implications are more complex.

The 25% tax free allowance is effectively up to £257,500 when transferring funds into drawdown with normal income tax payable on the rest when taken as income from drawdown. However once the LTA is reached you are charged 25% tax on any funds moved into drawdown in addition to the tax when taken as income.

An added complication is that at age 75 there is a one off 25% charge payable on any funds over and above the LTA whether they are in the SIPP or drawdown.

Therefore it is advantageous to transfer shares such as VRS with the potential of high growth into the drawdown area before they grow significantly, to take the maximum allowable under LTA before age 75 and take income at normal rates rather than be hit with the extra 25% tax charge on anything left over the LTA at 75.

Therefore it is important to take the maximum allowable under the LTA before reaching age 75 and not leaving too much in the SIPP over and above the LTA.

Once the LTA is reached the effective rate of tax become 55%.

This is a summary of a set of tightly written rules to heavily tax anyone whose SIPP goes over the LTA, there is little you can do to avoid this but there are a couple of traps you can steer clear of.

Study the rules and if you are not still clear either discuss or seek advice.

[shavian] 12/10/2018 23:26

Mikeod: please see my post 40019. It can be done if your platform provider will play! Good luck, good night and good weekend everybody. Zzzzzzzzzzz

[haz101] 12/10/2018 23:19

Busy thank you for your honesty, we all make mistakes and not everyone discloses here, I am a novice myself but have found that by reading up on as much information out there on VRS and the wider market in general I can make an informed decision on my investment, im not saying I will always get it right but it has helped me this week in particular, wishing you well with your investment, Haz

[loveder] 12/10/2018 23:14

Busy B . If you've never made a mistake you've never made anything !

[haz101] 12/10/2018 23:11

How many top ups is that now Ewads :)

[mikeod] 12/10/2018 23:06

Following Sandbag's SIPP/ISA question,I have a related question. My VRS holding is split 80/20 % between SIPP & ISA. I have not made a ISA contribution this tax year.
Can I do an in-specie transfer of £20k worth VRS shares from SIPP to ISA?

[willoicc] 12/10/2018 22:16

sandbag

Ref SIPP v ISA drawdown.

Assuming you meet the age requirement, you can take 25% of the value of your SIPP tax free. You can then take further income, tax free, up to the difference between your State Pension (plus any other income) and the annual personal allowance.


After you take the 25% tax free, and have used up all your personal tax allowances, all drawdowns are subject to income tax at 20% up to top of annual 20% limit and higher rate taxes thereafter.

The other thing to consider is Inheritance Tax treatment of SIPPs v ISAs and is influenced by how close you are to the lower tax free inheritance tax limit which I believe is currently £325,000 per person.

I am not a qualified tax or financial advisor so above is just my understanding.

[diversification] 12/10/2018 21:55

It doesn’t matter if you have 1 share or 1 million shares with not a spare dime to buy any more (?). Every individuals investment is relative to what he or she feels is a reasonable amount of money that they feel that they can afford to lose should the worst happen.

Many can blame AIM antics for what has happened this week but in fact it is due to the wider market ‘risk off’ attitude. This has forced the hand of those with a significant holding in various shares (often dictated by algorithms) which removes all logic and reasoning from any trade.

What is clear is that those stocks that offer compelling upside potential will benefit from the reallocation of funds when the sell off has finished.

What is positive imo is that the flush from yesterday has potentially removed the forced seller from the equation which imo led to today’s rise on relatively little volume by comparison. As the U.S. market filled the gap from its initial bounce into the European close, VRS maintained an orderly market. With the U.S. market recovering and finding support towards the end of its trading day, VRS again stands to gain from the recovering ‘risk on’ sentiment.

One thing we can be certain of, another entertaining week ahead.

Even without news next week if the markets continue to recover, I think we can expect a return to the highs.

[ellissj] 12/10/2018 21:53

Lol lucky ! Fair nuff :) atb ellis

[spike_1] 12/10/2018 21:48

Sonny:
this is what I said (below) at no point did I say I believed it wasn't going to happen. I simply said I could be wrong in my 'belief'.

In particular the US Graphene accreditation for +Nanene, which I think (I could well be wrong) may be announced on Monday (after hours our time) at / prior to the 'Standardisation - status' closed session on day one in Austin.

Some may recall - I specifically asked Neill at the AGM if accreditation would happen at the conference and - in my opinion - he avoided answering, implying it was a bit of an ask (my words). Others may care to comment?

Oh I also increased my sb a little today.

[luckyorange] 12/10/2018 21:42

I give up elliss, carry on 🤔

[ewads] 12/10/2018 21:39

sonsonnyjim - you're going off piste again.

[ellissj] 12/10/2018 21:36

Yeh i know lucky, but crucially this announcement doesn't say if the testing service will be to proposed iso standards ? Or publically visible to investors ? I said all this at the time :) further, If you read the vrs rns for the invite by US graphene council by comparison to test +nanene, the language used suggests testing to a high quality ie likely iso standards. All i'm suggesting is that by geic opening, it would be helpful if it's partners firms had their graphene products tested so that companies could collab with confidence ? To my mind to proposed iso standards ? Makes sense to me, else you potentially have a graphene fudge shop lol ! That wouldn't befit it's surroundings. Hope you can see my line of reasoning ! Aimo. Best ellis.

[club sandwich] 12/10/2018 21:26

Fest

"Unlike others who seem to be quite content, I’m most displeased at having £350k less in my portfolio than I had 7 days ago.
So, let’s move forward with an increased urgency to turn some of these collaborations into revenue."

understand your frustration - which I share - but business doesn't move to your, mine, or anyone else's timescales except the parties involved...

I did say you should sell some and lock in some profits ;-)

[forestfred] 12/10/2018 21:24

Not Sold any and held strong and had several top ups.
Looking forward to future events and news. .

Have a good weekend , away on the sw coast going through more storms again , but clear and bright days coming .
Best wishes fellow Vrs investors .
Ff

[luckyorange] 12/10/2018 21:21

It's already in place?

"17July2018
New national service will accelerate UK’s graphene industry
A new service has been launched by the National Physical Laboratory (NPL) and the National Graphene Institute (NGI) at The University of Manchester, which will help the UK to cash in on the potential of graphene, by providing the ‘missing link’ for industrialisation of the material.

Commercially, graphene comes in several forms, such as flakes in a powder or liquid, each with variation in their properties, yield, and reproducibility of the product. Material standardisation is crucial to industry uptake but, as with all new technologies, international standards for graphene are in their infancy. As such, manufacturers are unable to verify that the graphene that they are working with has the desired properties. In fact, as it is unregulated, companies cannot even be sure what material they are buying, a point recently highlighted by the FCA in a warning for investors.

The new graphene characterisation service, led by the organisations leading the standard for graphene, will allow companies to understand the properties of the material they are working with in greater detail. By providing this service, NPL and NGI hope to accelerate the industrialisation of graphene in the UK – forging the missing link between graphene research and development, and its application in next generation products.