Versarien Share Discussion Threads

[johnveals] 11/8/2018 14:00

Superg1 - The Chinese preferred option could be to buy the IP with a one off fee, Versarien could want a large up front payment and royalties for ever more whilst retaining full ownership of the IP, or any one of a myriad of possibilities in between. We simply do not know.

Given that China is a totalitarian regime I see no reason why any existing rules cannot be changed, or bent slightly, if the will is there.

I have faith that Neill and my interests are aligned, there is also the rest of the world and we have governmental level support.

Bring it on.

[ellissj] 11/8/2018 13:56

A rules based system is dependent upon circumstance. Change the circumstances and the rules change. The more valuable the thing you desire, the more circumstances change and exceptions are made. The bottom line is China is all still in play, unless advised otherwise. Latterly a +nanene sample has been delivered for testing. That speaks volumes to me. Aimo. Best ellis.

[jointer13] 11/8/2018 13:55

that was in January.

[jointer13] 11/8/2018 13:53

policy change.

China's Progress on Intellectual Property Rights (Yes, Really)

Foreign firms have been slow to realize the substantial changes in China’s protection of IP rights.


"In terms of policy, just last month, China finished a four-month nationwide campaign coordinated across 12 government agencies to protect the IP rights of foreign firms. The hope is that the campaign will improve cooperation among IP enforcement bodies, create a sound environment for foreign investors, and deter future violations of foreign IP.
While some have argued that domestic political constraints prevent China from making significant legal changes, China has already embarked on the arduous task of reforming its IPR regime. Indeed, domestic demand has made this essential. Not only has China reformed its IP laws to expand admissible evidence and increase damages for violations, but it has also reformed its legal structures and implemented new policies to limit the possibility of protectionism and bias against foreign litigants.
While the system is far from perfect, the impact of these reforms should not be understated. These changes represent a positive trend in China’s commercial environment and as the laws continue to nurture domestic innovation, foreign firms ignore this progress at their own risk."

[axotyl] 11/8/2018 13:42

JH - how do Coke and Pepsi get around the IP issue in China?

EDIT
There's a 2006 article on Wong-Fleming's website (attorneys - US, Germany, Canada & Mexico) here: on "Intellectual Property Rights in China", mentioning Coca Cola specifically.

However, I haven't dug out the answer yet.

One para. in particular:

Many people are aware that Coca-Cola does not disclose the recipe for its famous soft drink. If a disgruntled employee were to post the recipe for Coke on the Internet, the company would lose its most valuable asset: the trade secret for how to make Coca-Cola. A trade secret is a secret kept by commercial entities in order to attain or maintain their success. There are as many forms of trade secrets as there are patents, copyrights and trademarks: a formula, computer program, process, method, device, technique, pricing information, customer list or other non-public information all could be trade secrets.

Trade secrets differ from patents, copyrights and trademarks in that while patents and copyrights require you to make your information public as part of the application process, trade secrets require you to actively keep the information secret by maintaining reasonable security measures. These measures can include physical means, such as keeping hard copies of relevant documents in locked cabinets and electronic copies on password-protected computers, and policies, as when employers require employees who have access to the trade secret to sign non-disclosure agreements requiring them not to release the information to unauthorized individuals and entities.

[john henry] 11/8/2018 13:35

Jointer13 i am not trading VRS stock. I was just stating a fact. Its the Chinese Policy that any Company operating in China must give access to their IP. What dont you understand,Its the Chinese Rules, if you dont give access then you dont operate in China. Its this Policy that needs to change.

VRS have simply a massive massive future.

[sonsonnyjim] 11/8/2018 13:33

I like what NR and the team are doing, however having looked at his fantasy football team I'm selling my holding, horrific stuff

[superg1] 11/8/2018 13:15

China

China will steal the IP etc, inferences that they will play hardball re valuations.

Let's not forget. NR popped to Bath Uni to do a presentation and after a Chinese delegation (Shandong) present heard about Nanene they invited him to China and treated him like a top VIP sticking him on national TV.

In the months prior Shandong had put an ad via the UK government DIT looking for a UK company to supply graphene to Chinese companies.

China has dozens of 'graphene' producers.

A little odd don't you think that many think China would steal VRS IP under those circs as so many produce 'graphene'.

Why would they do that. Over 100 Chinese graphene companies and bears say anyone and everyone does what VRS do in tonnes.

Most odd, are the Chinese government daft, can they not see that all graphene produced is genuine.

US too, I mean wtf are they doing picking NR/VRS to lead them.

Very odd. Do China, the US, UK gov ministers, Matt Walker, huge companies, the CPI, Geic, UOM etc etc etc know something that share prophets don't, Surely not...... impossible.🤐

[jointer13] 11/8/2018 13:10

jh is a trader...changes his tune to suit whatever he is doing.

posting again along with the shorters.

[ellissj] 11/8/2018 12:46

Yes, that's your honest appraisal JH, fair enough. However, all still in play as yet it seems, and at a higher level than before - A govt secondee is unprecedented. We all await further news due course. Aimo. Best ellis.

[luckyorange] 11/8/2018 12:29

"We are a team of entrepreneurs and investors with distinctive backgrounds who have lived and worked in China experiencing its exciting development over the past 20 years. Collectively, our experience covers 15+ industries and all stages of a company’s life from inception to exit."

[johnveals] 11/8/2018 12:26

NR has in the past said despite the delays "it will happen".

[luckyorange] 11/8/2018 12:24

Sometimes you need to think laterally, some can some can't . There are many options for deals with China, Neill et al will know them all.

[johnveals] 11/8/2018 12:23

Time will tell but Versarien had a promising future before China was announced.



John Henry - your posts are always interesting and appear well informed, but I am unsure of your motives, you clearly aren't an evangelist, are you a hard headed realist or a very subtle deramper?

[axotyl] 11/8/2018 12:20

FT (like, I guess, much of the weekend press) has an article (p.15 today, Markets and Investing) on: "Musk's war of words underlines rise of short sellers on Wall St".

Couple of quotes:

"Dan Loeb, the billionaire behind the hedge fund Third Point, has admitted to spending much of the 1990s posting on investment message boards as Mr Pink".

"Marc Cohodes, a former hedge fund manager and ongoing vocal short seller, branded the idea “crazy” (for the US to adopt the European regulations - declaration of shorts more than 0.5% stock).

To him, short-sellers already have the cards stacked against them. He said: “We’re detested, loathed, regulators are against you, rules are against you, companies against you, every force of nature against you, so only the strong survive.”

NB Online access to FT - £1/month trial

[jointer13] 11/8/2018 12:15

I think china would have too much to lose by stealing the ip.

its funny how some people think, I reckon they will get the china deals.

we will see.

[john henry] 11/8/2018 12:03

I have absolutely no doubt Chinese companies would steel VRS IP given the chance.

[john henry] 11/8/2018 12:00

Ellissj i really hope a deal can be reached, However the Chinese Government must change their policy which would mean changing policy for all companies operating in China. The US and Trump have been trying to get China to change Policy, they havent and are now engaged in a trade war and still wont budge.
Imho VRS will have to walk away from China.

[ellissj] 11/8/2018 11:49

On that basis jh, the terms of the LOI precludes a deal ; it was always a non starter. Yet 24 are now interested. Matt Walker in there. Using logic a negotiation is indeed taking place. I remain hopeful. If you want something badly enough, accomodations can always be arrived at. Even on a 'without prejudice' basis where a one off agreement is reached without setting a precedent. In any case the china deals are not priced into the share price We shall see how this pans out in due course. Aimo. Best ellis.

[battery] 11/8/2018 11:36

I know the AGM is on 25th September but have they announced where it will be held yet.? Last year it was in a local rugby club.I did send an email to Neill with that article link concerning EU taking China to WTO over IP ownership. He confirmed it was part of the reason no deal had yet been announced. With hindsight I think he meant the IP transfer was the issue holding things up rather than what I thought at the time he meant was awaiting the outcome of the EU legal challenge.Still think a deal will be done, but I think the timeframe to that is longer than I originally expected/hoped. Neill is in a strong negotiating position, they need us not the other way around.Happy to hold/accumulate for as long as this journey takes and have total faith in Neill's judgement - he's the one at the coalface after all and hasn't appeared to have put a foot wrong so far.

[club sandwich] 11/8/2018 11:36

actually I don't think they shoot people any more - they send them off to have their collagen harvested to then be sold to the Western cosmetics industry.

[john henry] 11/8/2018 11:34

The Chinese Government Policy is that any company setting up business in China has to make their IP available.
For VRS to operate in China the Government has to change Policy.
Imho This is highly unlikely.
The US China Trade War is based around China stealing US companies IP.

[sandbag] 11/8/2018 11:26

" robbing from VRS re IP etc is one thing - robbing from the central govt could end you up against a wall facing a hail of bullets"

I've been thinking along the same lines as pcjoe.

[axotyl] 11/8/2018 11:04

Material Question: "Graphene may be the most remarkable substance ever discovered. But what’s it for?"



I mentioned this New Yorker article on our 'classic' thread some time ago. It's well worth a read for newcomers. Published in 2014, it asks many questions which have been answered since, and posed a few which are still outstanding.

Edit
One quote I liked on aluminium:

In the eighteen-fifties, a French chemist devised a method for making a few grams at a time, and aluminum was quickly adopted for use in expensive jewelry. Three decades later, a new process, using electricity, allowed industrial production, and the price plummeted.

“People said, ‘Wow! We’ve got this silver from clay, and now it’s really cheap and we can use it for anything,’ ” Robert Friedel, a historian of technology at the University of Maryland, told me. But the enthusiasm soon cooled: “They couldn’t figure out what to use it for.”

[jointer13] 11/8/2018 10:56

when you think about it, we are up and running, hence the 3 tonne capability.