Versarien Share Discussion Threads

[redchef] 03/4/2017 07:15

Stand by, Graphene just got a mention on BBC Breakfast in connection with an award winning photo of Graphene Ink. Was even given a recommendation for reading up on the supermaterial

[luckyorange] 03/4/2017 07:01

You are a one, I'll take that as a yes lol.

[supernumerary] 03/4/2017 01:09

Nice try, but no cigar! ;¬)

[luckyorange] 03/4/2017 00:00

You've sold again haven't you ? :-)

[supernumerary] 02/4/2017 23:27

lucky - I think it's pretty straightforward - if it's price-affecting (often seen as worth 10% of annual sales or earnings, but certainly something of that order) it must be RNSed.

If it's of interest to investors but unlikely to affect the share price, then an RNSNON may be appropriate in order to highlight the significance of the order. This usually occurs with first orders in new markets, or with particularly interesting customers, or for newly-introduced products.

NR has demonstrated repeatedly that he's free with the RNSNONs - witness examples for stuff he may (or possibly may not) have bought, and £100k orders, and agreements to agree... He alone decides the criteria for issuing an RNSNON - it's really just a PR that uses the SE news distribution mechanism - so if an interesting order comes in he can RNSNON it without constraint. He will not miss such an opportunity, believe me.

It's all very well having lots of (hypothetical) little orders, but surely they need at least one of these £100K orders every month, if not every week? And with decent margins if they're not to keep coming back for more money?

[luckyorange] 02/4/2017 22:38

Down to the Nomad innit sn? Unless they are significant orders of 100k plus they will deem it unnecessary I would think, keeps the share price sensible.

Just a guess that a lot of 'little' orders will be coming through and would expect more in the future, it's a waiting game.

[supernumerary] 02/4/2017 22:16

Where does that say 'we have sold' or words to that effect? It seems to me that given NR's fondness for RNSNONs, any order, however tiny, would have been reported...

Am I alone in wondering why there hasn't been a single graphene order worthy of even an RNSNON since November last year?

[superg1] 02/4/2017 18:55

Yep

The Q and A from directors talk post ink scale up.


Q1: Neill, we saw an update earlier on your Cambridge operations, can you remind of the details and the rationale behind the acquisition of Cambridge Graphene?

A1: Sure, so things are moving very quickly for us, we announced that we've acquired a majority stake in Cambridge Graphene, which is a spin-out for the University of Cambridge, a couple of weeks ago. On the back of that, we had an over-subscribed placing in order to get the capital equipment required to really start to take that technology and to develop it at the University. The reason that we are really interested in that is that they have a different type of graphene that they produce there from the graphene we produce as a result of our own patented process, the 2 processes work very closely together and in fact they operate in completely difference areas which enables us to cover all of the graphene market. The material that is produced at the University of Cambridge is an ink and will be used in things like printable electronics and RFID tags, technologies of the future, that will enable us to really know what's happening in our environment. So, it's really important for us to really get going on that, we have got some really good enquiries and now we are building up our capacity.

Q2: At the time of your fundraising, earlier this month, you said that you would be using the proceeds to significantly scale up both graphene manufacturing capabilities and marketing efforts and to take advantage of the substantial commercial opportunities that you have seen. How are you progressing with this?

A2: So, as Versarien were able to announce this morning, we have established a base now at the University of Cambridge, we have now got the kit ordered and actually commissioned in a period of about 10 days, which I think is simply staggering from our team and they have already sold their first order out of that facility down in Cambridge to a company looking for some graphene ink. In terms of the Nanene and the new materials we announced just a couple of months ago, I have just come out of a marketing meeting where we are managing expectations with some very very large customers at a very early stage in order to facilitate getting that technology really moving as well. We haven't actually ordered the equipment for that yet until we can establish that we have got significant demand but it's all ready to go and we will looking forward to placing all that equipment on order. We are a relatively small team so at the moment we have concentrated on getting Cambridge up and running, getting it to the same sort of levels that we have got down in Cheltenham and then it's all go on the Cheltenham facility.

Q3: What does it mean having the equipment in place already, what does that mean for Versarien PLC?

A3: So, we have got an established production base down here in Cheltenham, where I am today, and the guys are downstairs making material for the guys to sell we were just talking about in this meeting and that means that we are up and ready, we are able to satisfy the demands of our customers. We have just expanded on that by having this other capability down at the University of Cambridge and over the next couple of weeks we have got a very active schedule and we have got lots of opportunities for us to display our technology at various technology events. Having the equipment in place means that our customers are able to place orders with confidence that we are able to supply, in fact one of our investors asked us the other day what would happen if he placed a rather significant order right now and one of our guys in the Cheltenham office said it's not a problem, we would be able to supply that straight out of the stock. For customers, it means that there is a degree of confidence, in being able to place an order with us, to be able to satisfy their needs.

[luckyorange] 02/4/2017 15:01

Cambridge have sold their first order?

'This equipment, operated by the existing Cambridge Graphene team, supplemented by recently added personnel, is already producing graphene for customers in sample quantities. '

You sure about that?

[superg1] 02/4/2017 13:58

Thinking of possible new arrivals post the show. Here is the McLaren comment about what GNPs/Graphene nano platelets do to composites.

The GNPs were in the small tub the black powder. Not all GNPs add strength they have to be below 10 layer and in this case the VRS GNPs are below 5 layer.

The nano qualification is 100nm which in GNP terms is 300 layers. Hence many with standards yet to be set can call graphite 100's of layers thick graphene. Such graphene will not strengthen composites and in many cases do the opposite.

Mclaren from their website from the director of Operations Jonathan Neale.

When he is talking below he is talking about the gains of adding VRS GNPs. The company can't tell you that but I can, it was easy to work out once they launched the watch. The guy that did the tests for VRS was at the Mclaren launch What we don't yet know is what had happened or is happening to the rest of the order.

So the Mclaren comments, it's on their website.

Can you simply explain nanoplatelet reinforcement?

“Yes, graphene is infused or mixed into resin systems, and those resin systems, for the application of creating carbon-fibre composites, are then combined and cured with layers of carbon-fibre. A graphene nanoplatelet is a small flat shape – very small, microscopically small, in fact. When you put those platelets into a resin system and mix it with your normal carbon-fibre layers, you greatly increase the inter-laminar bond strength, amongst other mechanical properties. Previously, when you relied on regular resins to hold the carbon-fibre layers together, there’s the possibility that those plies could shear apart – a common and well-known Achilles’ heel of composites. By introducing other structures within the resin, you can increase the shear toughness.”

How much of a step forward is graphene technology?

“We think the properties of graphene are pretty mind-blowing. Some of the mechanical properties of graphene-enhanced composites can be improved by double-digit percentages compared to regular carbon-fibre composites. In engineering, we often talk about improvements in terms of fractions of a per cent; to suddenly introduce improvements of this order is incredible, but it gives you a very clear perspective on just how much we’re discovering about the properties of graphene, and just how much it’s re-defining our existing understanding of materials science.

[superg1] 02/4/2017 13:47

The blue pad on the table was a little demo for graphene ink created by Novalia who use Cambridge graphene ink.

Novelty posters in here but it's just one aspect of the conductive graphene ink VRS have.



Same think in this video but this time Unilever using it in a supermarket.

Start at 13 mins 31 secs and you will see it.

[superg1] 02/4/2017 13:10

I see Victoria were talking at the show so that's probably why they did a presentation.

Some companies do that and generally the presentations get listed as a video to view.

As that involves spending more money I imagine the CFO said no way and I suspect it wasn't considered in any case or even known about as an option.

[superg1] 02/4/2017 13:04

RID

It was a suck and see visit. Note VRS didn't rns the event like others attending did and they have never been there before.

I think the dragons den bit was a surprise too as the as it's anything but with 500 plus looking on.

No flowering up, no market announcement that they would be there and subsequently I suspect slightly overwhelmed by the interest they got.

The CFO only planned to be there until lunch but circumstances took over. It was still going strong when others had packed up and gone home.

Some companies do the investor room type presentations which is what you may be talking about those break out rooms. VRS didn't do that it was purely turn up and be available if anyone wanted to chat.

Possibly an investigation ongoing that the CFO managed to pick up the cheapest tea and coffee in central London such is his expertise in that area.

[ridicule] 02/4/2017 12:37

Many thanks for the useful feedback SuperG. I could not get there, but I am also invested in Victoria Oil and Gas who were also there. Interesting that they produced a powerpoint presentation for the show and released it simultaneously on their web site.

This has generated a lot of investor interest on social media and it would have been a good move for VRS to have taken the same approach.

[superg1] 02/4/2017 11:01

Thank goodness or the silver fox CFO to improve the look.

[superg1] 02/4/2017 10:42

Just listing the Cambridge ink news again as many are not on ADVFN but may look in and a few did ask about it.

[captain_kurt] 02/4/2017 10:40

Guy in the blue shirt looks like he needs to go on a diet ;)

[superg1] 02/4/2017 10:37

I learned yesterday that VRS have a number of events over the next year. I know of some but have it my my head they said 12 but will check.

Not investor events but technology events some the CEO present at and the one near term where they have been selected from a list of hopefuls.

[astralvision] 02/4/2017 10:36

The VRS stand sure looks busy, one or two or three familair faces there as well!

[superg1] 02/4/2017 10:34

I understand Prof. Andrea Ferrari is an interesting and passionate guy within his sector his sector.

He is the VRS/Cambridge ink guy.

I see he has just won an award.



Prof. Andrea Ferrari, Director of the Cambridge Graphene Centre, has been awarded the NANOSMAT Award 2017. The award recognises exceptional scientific achievements, professional leadership, originality and innovation in research and development relating to nanoscience and nanotechnology

The NANOSMAT Award is an international prize awarded annually since 2014 to international scientists who have shown outstanding achievements in the fields of nanoscience and nanotechnology during the course of their professional career. The awards committee were very impressed by Prof. Ferrari's research exploiting different frontiers stretching from materials science to engineering and physics with novel and stimulating results.


I'm guessing the breakthrough in the ink is part reason.

[superg1] 02/4/2017 10:11

Simon

I agree.

They like to build a solid business and I got the impression they were sad to see what was a good building business start to fall away.

I know having spoken to them many times they perplexed to some extent that the AIM isn't all about building solid businesses which is their ultimate goal.

I know they may not like me saying this as they like to keep feet on the ground but looking around and knowing the business sectors they are in I believe has them thinking they are undervalued on the potential.

However they are acutely aware and will openly say it's all about results in driving sales forward. Clearly Carbide with the oil turn is coming out of it's dip as as we know they started to diversify to mitigate such future risks.

Copper foam which rarely got a mention yesterday is a nice looking disruptive product but the excitement near term is about GNPs, GO and the ink. Having had a chat yesterday they obviously sell graphene oxide too and the going rate for that seems to be in the £80 to £120 range per gram.

It's so easy for folk to just say "Graphene blue sky". I know I was one of them a couple of years back but I worked those 2 out and that's why I dug in as they are not hype chasers they look for real opportunities.

The ink speaks for itself. That caught me cold and it took me weeks to work it out. It was ready to go, they haven't even named it yet but they have upgraded the Cambridge facility in quick time and sold their first order.

I understand the Cambridge ink guys are highly impressed with the speed VRS moved in supporting them.

That seems to be a common theme across the market and government where the VRS team and what they are doing is impressing many that we don't hear about. You have to put in the extra hours to work those out.

[simon templar qc] 02/4/2017 09:53

superg1

On a more serious note now the 1st is out of the way, I also know the CFO he was CFO at Elektron for many years, and you are correct about him being careful with finance. Had he remained at EKT the company would have been in a better financial position.

[superg1] 02/4/2017 08:24

I'll post some more through the day (quelle surprise).

I know some were negative about the investor show but as a first time visitor it seemed to be a roaring success in terms of investor interest and of value to existing investors and new investors who could talk to the CEO and CFO directly and get a decent understanding of the company. It was virtually entirely focused on the graphene side and one new ones having now heard about asking if they could do 3D printing (Yes). Then some asking if they could make conductive ink with the GNPs which obviously then catapulted into Cambridge talk. Then some asking about batteries which resulted in the direction to read up on WMG.

The Mclaren pages are useful as it was easy to direct some to read up on their website what Mclaren think about GNPs in carbon fibre and the performance gain. Obviously the company CEO/CFO couldn't make any comment about McLaren but that didn't stop me of course as it's blindingly obvious it was VRS GNPs that McLaren used.

There was Dragons Den bit that I missed, I'm not fully sure how that works I'll have to look it up but I believe one chose VRS. Then post that event there was a bit of a rush to speak to the CEO.

Overall many seemed to be very interested and impressed that the technology has come from Manchester and Cambridge University, the connection of VRS with the NGI and the UOM.

One guy had strong Cambridge connections and is skilled in the field of understanding. Another knew one of the fund managers well and another fund manager who imo should look at this one so we had a good chat. There was a surprising mix of folk including those involved in regulating the market and those that work within it. I had some interesting conversations with them.

So Imo it was well worth VRS attending and to answer the doubters (remember they are obliged to monitor BBs) the CEO said this is new ground for them and they are keen that those invested get the opportunity to speak to management. The only way to find out if events are worthwhile for that opportunity is to attend them and in a term he uses "kick the tyres".

I do feel on the basis of interest from investors the `CEO and CFO will consider it was very worthwhile. They like to engage with investors.

It seems to me they desire not to be tagged as what I would call a typical AIM company. They are a business trying to build revenue through existing companies and new technology with the intent to move to profit and dividends.

The CFO is lovely guy and you will be glad to hear a tight fisted very diligent CFO who pays attention to every detail. That's the sort of CFO that you want in charge of anything you are invested in.

TBH I hadn't really appreciated why funds are so keen to have good CFOs in the companies they invest in but having met and talked to The CFO it becomes blatantly obvious. If you mix a poor CFO with a spend thrift CEO then a business is generally doomed on the cash front.

While some I know fly business class and stay in the plush hotels and bring in a load of highly paid dead wood management, this one doesn't. He wouldn't be allowed too and isn't of that nature in any case. Always looking for the cheapest option to do company business hence the bus from the railway station in `Derby as in twitter. Others probably wouldn't bee seen dead on a bus, it's their nature.

So on that front no worries at all.

[handygandhi] 02/4/2017 06:40

Using nanene, naturally.

[bones] 01/4/2017 22:35

Vasilis, yes, it is the persuasive salesman you have to identify and guard against.That SFO case study is certainly a sober read and proof that we are on our own out here.