Versarien Share Discussion Threads

[superg1] 27/3/2017 08:14

That's why I've asked a few companies some questions as if I was a customer.

The claims start to fall apart and then when you ask for advice, generally there isn't any and they offer a buy back if it doesn't work.

EG

The one over the pond claiming to lead the way (if you read their news) but they only internal R and D and research size availability and the patent isn't about production although they are happy to let people think it is.

[luckyorange] 27/3/2017 07:47

I would suggest that is why VRS need to get a sales team out there superg, it's a bloody nightmare to try and find a company that actually produces what should be a simple product that is ready to go for commercial applications.

[shavian] 27/3/2017 07:33

Yes, it would be interesting to know how many layers in the Cambridge Nanosystems powder; they make it sound so easy in the video.Slightly OT, it's depressing to see how many Brits they have in their lineup -none. A warning to those who seek a hard Brexit at any cost. Do they want to sent such talent packing?

[superg1] 27/3/2017 07:20

I understand Cambridge nano avoided some very basic questions at the Idtechex event but the 'suitable for ink' is a good point.

The UOM after many years have failed to produce a viable ink, Cambridge after over 5 years have got there.

That's just like the lot I looked at the other day but that seemed to suggest they had ink, but what they had was GNPS which if I bought may be suitable for ink if I could work out how to make ink.

The same can be said for composites many graphene 'producers' just provide graphene with no evidence that it works, no proof and no guidance on how you overcome the dispersion issue.

Bring on the standards/ISOs etc I say.

[luckyorange] 26/3/2017 22:17

Cambridge nanosystems supply powder

Love the way that they produce graphene from gas using a plasma reactor (sounds scary lol), no graphite used but the product is 'crumpled' which is apparently suitable for inks and they claim that they can produce kilo's a day.

[superg1] 26/3/2017 20:52

I thought I'd hunt for some silver ink and graphene ink for sale and found some on Sigma
Aldridge.

For the graphene ink all types if I bought all they had in stock then that would be 110ml.

10ml of product from £364 to £438 per 10ml.

For graphene ink in water for inkjets it says product currently not available.



I had a look at the extra info once it was in the buy cart.

The silver ink I selected needs 250C to finish it off.

They do a screen print water based graphene ink and here are the details.

10ml 10% solids in water £438

Application
Formulated for screen printing:
• Typical substates: glass, paper.
• Drying Condition: 100°C for 10 min.

But then I looked at the other graphene inks.

Application
Formulated for Inkjet printing.
Curing Condition: 250-350°C, 20-30min

Thermal annealing for low resistance.

Legal Information
Sold under Material Transfer Agreement with Mark Hersam group at Northwestern University.

A new ink has no data and advises me to look it up on Goodfellow.

There I find 'graphene ink' and no data to look at. All products not available, back to Sigma and it suggests May if I order now but I have no idea what I'm ordering.

So across the 2 sites I've come up with I can get a total of 110ml. The least hassle one needs to be dried at 100 C for 10 minutes.

The Cambridge ink

100 metres per minute standard printing presses and a line in the article which I assume covers the issues with the inks I list.

"There is no wastage of material or time consuming post-processing,R21; added Karagiannidis.

The post processing being the main point.

[phoenixs] 26/3/2017 17:58

superg,
thanks for all your posts today. Really does show that there is incredible potential for the Cambridge ink,That Cambridge ink is the world leader and is ready for commercial sales is truly exciting.
A decent order for the ink and I think the share price will move very quickly northwards.

[superg1] 26/3/2017 17:38

Even apple are in on graphene or looking at it.

[superg1] 26/3/2017 12:13

It was in the Daily mail in 2011.




That's the same ink, so as before is shows just how long it takes to go from R and D to that point in 2011 then to where we are now which is VRS acquiring it, ready to go and taking it to the market.

Perhaps the Daily mail will follow that up when it launches fully.

[superg1] 26/3/2017 12:09

I don't know if anyone noticed but sensors were thrown into the pot in the CEO interview

This line.

'technologies of the future, that will enable us to really know what is happening in our environment'

The CEO has mentioned gas and chemical sensors before, crop monitoring, air, disease etc etc.

Cambridge ink again but in humidity sensors.

[superg1] 26/3/2017 11:58

I see the guys at Cambridge mentioned the other ink out there whivh tends to back up things I'm finding.

“We are pleased to be the first to bring graphene inks close to real-world manufacturing. There are lots of companies that have produced graphene inks, but none of them has done it on a scale close to this,” said Dr Tawfique Hasan of the Cambridge Graphene Centre (CGC), who developed the method. “Being able to produce conductive inks that could effortlessly be used for printing at a commercial scale at a very high speed will open up all kinds of different applications for graphene and other similar materials.”

“This method will allow us to put electronic systems into entirely unexpected shapes,” said Chris Jones of Novalia. “It’s an incredibly flexible enabling technology.”

[superg1] 26/3/2017 11:55

I've just been ambling around the web looking for graphene ink.

It's a difficult topic without enough knowledge but a big probelm was getting the right conductivity.

I did note a lack of inkjet capability and have it in my head ahead ink depositing issue s and blocking of inkjets.

I also recall mutterings about it not being a problem with Cambridge ink, IE a breakthrough.

So I tried a search for inkjet graphene ink and that took me to a Cambridge ink paper.

So jumping straight to the conclusion.

We demonstrated ink-jet printing of graphene. Liquid
phase exfoliated graphene is an ideal and low cost
material for the fabrication of transparent conductive
inks. Our graphene-ink was used to print TFTs with
µ up to∼95cm2V−1s−1
. It was also combined with PQT-12 to fabricate devices with µ ∼0.2cm2V−1
s −1 and ON/OFF ratios∼4×105
. This demonstrates the viability of graphene-inks for flexible and transparent electronics.

And the start of the document

'We demonstrate ink-jet printing as a viable method for large area fabrication of graphene devices'

Then it's well worth reading this bit in it which describes the gain of inkjet printing capability.

Flexible electronics is a rapidly expanding research area. Applications include touch screens, electronic paper (e-paper), sensors, radio frequency tags
, photovoltaic cells, and electronic textiles.

To date, it mainly relies on two fabrication strategies:
one in which substrates bearing thousands of Field-effect Transistors (FETs) are bonded to plastic by transfer printing or pick and place methods; another in which FETs are prepared directly on the target substrate by several coating,
curing and lithographic steps. Rubber stamping.
,
Embossing and ink-jet printing, reduce the number of such fabrication steps.

The paper is dated 2011 so they have come a long way since. Perhaps worth a read for some for the first few paragraphs.



It gives a idea how long it takes to come up with a viable ink.

[hastings] 26/3/2017 11:33

If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck then yes, you've got it right..

[superg1] 26/3/2017 11:26

Hmmm

Any chance it was a training/sports shoe?

You will know far more than I about the ink after your visit.

[hastings] 26/3/2017 11:02

Superg1 you just keep them coming well done. On the latter re-devices, during the recent Cambridge visit I witnessed such an example in the lab, this being focused on footwear!The potential applications are immense as surely is the opportunity for VRS going forward.

[superg1] 26/3/2017 10:38

What the UOM said on graphene inks. They can see the market but they don't have a viable ink.

Note the news is near 2 years old, they are still not near creating a viable ink.




and a further twist on what the ink can be used for

[superg1] 26/3/2017 09:33

Graphene inks.

I've had a few questions from others on the topic about competitors.

The key with Cambridge is the breakthrough for an efficient process to provide a viable conductive ink that can be used in current printing presses with no modifications needed.

So it's a breakthrough on a number of fronts getting the full house of requirements straight out of the blocks.

Others struggle to get to the point of a viable ink let alone the aspect being able to print at high speed.

E.G.

When VRS acquired it I asked about the UOM/NGI ink and was told UOM will openly admit they are way behind Cambridge. I did read about UOM ink and it needs compression post print so they haven't cracked it yet.

Then another I read that post print it has to be dried at 60C for 20 minutes and so on.

That company reply I posted the other day. Their ink wasn't ink it was unspecified GNPS and if I mix it, it should create a conductive ink. Well I have no chance with that.

But bang up to date here is a recent example. Talga just announced with another to collaborate to make a conductive ink.

So they are years behind Cambridge and may not get to a viable product.

How would such partners feel trying to develop conductive inks when there is already a commercial speed, water based low cost option now hitting the market.

Many inks use harsh chemicals.

I struggle to imagine how Cambridge can improve on what they already have.

Water based, 100% gnp use, no chemical modification, 100 metres per minute print speed, can be used in commercial printers with no modifications needed.

It's proven.

[luckyorange] 25/3/2017 18:05

Had a quick look at Nippon Kayaku, but think the graphene interest relates to printable organic semi conductors (could be wrong!)

They seem to be very keen to get that to the msrket.

[luckyorange] 25/3/2017 09:59

All of that could have been in the RNS, but happy that it wasn't. All we need now are some orders to start the ball rolling, new budgets in April?!

[superg1] 25/3/2017 07:16

I just read the relevant ink paper but should have just jumped straight to the conclusion.

However reading it did make me realise how difficult and complicated it could be to produce graphene inks.

So with a furrowed brow it was nice to read the conclusion.

We report a simple and scalable route to exfoliate graphite. The resulting material can be used without any additional steps (washing or centrifugation) to formulate highly conductive inks with adjustable viscosity for high-throughput printing. A conductivity of 2 × 104 S/m was demonstrated. Our approach enables the mass production of chemically unmodified flakes that can be used in inks, coatings, and conductive composites for a wide range of applications.

So not just a huge breakthrough for inks but other areas too.

[superg1] 25/3/2017 07:00

Nippon Kayaku M/C $2.5 billion.

I thought I'd have a hunt around old Cambridge graphene centre news

January 2015

"Nippon Kayaku becomes an industrial partner of the Cambridge Graphene Centre"

"Nippon Kayaku will support the Centre for Doctoral Training in Graphene Technology, focussing on the innovative use of graphene in applications that benefit Nippon Kayaku's business portfolio. The company specialises in advanced resin materials and polymers, and is researching the benefits to be achieved from the incorporation of graphene into its composite materials mix."

Wiki

"Major products made by Nippon Kayaku are: epoxy resins, UV-curing type resins, functional films, colors for inkjet printers, catalysts, dyes pharmaceuticals,"

[superg1] 25/3/2017 06:33

You have to admire Neill Ricketts and the team.

Just over 2 months ago I didn't know Cambridge were doing graphene ink. VRS acquired it and initially I struggled to get to grips with what that could be all about and the potential market.

At some point post acquisition I asked the status of the ink. R and D potential timelines to commercial and so on.

The answer was simply 'ready to go'.

Well any company can say that but if you get to know the CEO there is no BS and flowering it up.

So in 2 months it's gone from acquired, scaled up and an order out of the door with more to follow.

It seems they haven't even had time to give the ink a name yet.

Now you know why the CEO and company is so well thought of and why such technology finds them.

[luckyorange] 24/3/2017 17:06

The next RNS should be letting us know about an order or two, could be Cambridge , 2D Tech or completely left field....... maybe :-)

[superg1] 24/3/2017 14:36

The Q and A from directors talk post ink scale up.


Q1: Neill, we saw an update earlier on your Cambridge operations, can you remind of the details and the rationale behind the acquisition of Cambridge Graphene?

A1: Sure, so things are moving very quickly for us, we announced that we’ve acquired a majority stake in Cambridge Graphene, which is a spin-out for the University of Cambridge, a couple of weeks ago. On the back of that, we had an over-subscribed placing in order to get the capital equipment required to really start to take that technology and to develop it at the University. The reason that we’re really interested in that is that they have a different type of graphene that they produce there from the graphene we produce as a result of our own patented process, the 2 processes work very closely together and in fact they operate in completely difference areas which enables us to cover all of the graphene market. The material that’s produced at the University of Cambridge is an ink and will be used in things like printable electronics and RFID tags, technologies of the future, that will enable us to really know what’s happening in our environment. So, it’s really important for us to really get going on that, we’ve got some really good enquiries and now we’re building up our capacity.

Q2: At the time of your fundraising, earlier this month, you said that you’d be using the proceeds to significantly scale up both graphene manufacturing capabilities and marketing efforts and to take advantage of the substantial commercial opportunities that you’d seen. How are you progressing with this?

A2: So, as Versarien were able to announce this morning, we’ve established a base now at the University of Cambridge, we’ve now got the kit ordered and actually commissioned in a period of about 10 days, which I think is simply staggering from our team and they’ve already sold their first order out of that facility down in Cambridge to a company looking for some graphene ink. In terms of the Nanene and the new materials we announced just a couple of months ago, I’ve just come out of a marketing meeting where we are managing expectations with some very very large customers at a very early stage in order to facilitate getting that technology really moving as well. We haven’t actually ordered the equipment for that yet until we can establish that we’ve got significant demand but it’s all ready to go and we’ll looking forward to placing all that equipment on order. We’re a relatively small team so at the moment we’ve concentrated on getting Cambridge up and running, getting it to the same sort of levels that we’ve got down in Cheltenham and then it’s all go on the Cheltenham facility.

Q3: What does it mean having the equipment in place already, what does that mean for Versarien PLC?

A3: So, we’ve got an established production base down here in Cheltenham, where I am today, and the guys are downstairs making material for the guys to sell we were just talking about in this meeting and that means that we’re up and ready, we’re able to satisfy the demands of our customers. We’ve just expanded on that by having this other capability down at the University of Cambridge and over the next couple of weeks we’ve got a very active schedule and we’ve got lots of opportunities for us to display our technology at various technology events. Having the equipment in place means that our customers are able to place orders with confidence that we’re able to supply, in fact one of our investors asked us the other day what would happen if he placed a rather significant order right now and one of our guys in the Cheltenham office said it’s not a problem, we’d be able to supply that straight out of the stock. For customers, it means that there’s a degree of confidence, in being able to place an order with us, to be able to satisfy their needs.

[superg1] 24/3/2017 14:27

I'm hoping things like Primarybid and what Vox are trying to do will start to kill off the dinosaurs and their approach, they have been so complacent and very often crooked.

We all know how useful the mandatory nomad is. It causes more trouble than it fixes and the nomads clearly don't check out companies and news to protect investors. They simply resign when they realise they are about to get exposed.

It's the biggest criminal network I can think of.