Titon Share Discussion Threads

[wad collector] 01/10/2020 21:08

Blimey this BB has turned into an economics lecture!

Let us just hope that Kim Jong-Un stays quiet for a bit longer.

[netcurtains] 01/10/2020 20:24

Definition of a net-net from Motely Fool:

What is a net-net?
A net-net is a company with a market capitalization that is less than the company's current assets minus total liabilities, or equivalently, the company's working capital minus long-term liabilities. This value is called the net current asset value. Long-term assets -- like land, equipment, buildings, and intangible assets -- are treated as being worthless.

If a net-net were to be liquidated, with current assets being used to settle all outstanding liabilities, the leftover cash would be worth more than the market capitalization of the company. Buying shares of a net-net, then, is essentially like buying a dollar for $0.50. You're also getting the company's long-term assets, which are likely worth something, for free.

By this definition TON is 84% of a net-net.

I think that is fair enough.

[netcurtains] 01/10/2020 17:31

ds: I said TON is 84% of a Netnet (using looser definition).

That is good enough ballpark.
And the definition I'm using is widely used.

[dangersimpson2] 01/10/2020 16:58

I'm not saying other ways of investing don't work, but you said that you never get net nets on the stricter definition which is untrue and I gave examples which proved it was untrue.

None of this is relevant to TON, which is definitely not a net net even on the loose definition that you have come up with, but may be a good investment nonetheless.

[netcurtains] 01/10/2020 16:26

dangersimpson: Using the LESS rigorous approach I had:
three winners: EVE, FCCN, LPA
then making massive allowance for the intangible asset of WILLIAM MORRIS LTD (the name) I made quite a lot on WGB (still in that) - I think its a special case where the intangible asset counts for a great deal!!!

Hoping to do the same with TRD and TON

So you see a looser definition also works!

End of the day there is a great deal of luck.

[dangersimpson2] 01/10/2020 14:26

I prefer method a) and have done well this year by buying stocks such as XAR, ARDN, ZYT that definitely were net nets by the strictest definition when I bought. EVE was also a net net and had 5 bagged at one point but I missed this due concerns over cash burn rate.

Currently, of the UK companies I track, NTQ, HDT are just net nets plus HTG is pretty close, which is highly unusual for a company that did almost $1b of revenue last year (most net nets are highly illiquid microcaps.)

So it is untrue that no UK company is going to be a net net based on the most rigorous criteria.

This doesn't mean TON isn't a good investment at the current price just to be an investment on a net net criteria it would need to be bought at 43p. Therefore it would be more useful analysing the future earnings potential of the company rather than claiming it is a buy based on a criteria that requires the price to half to meet.

[netcurtains] 01/10/2020 11:36

ds2: and p: Motelyfool give an example using the more basic approach. I cant see much to gain by using the more rigorous approach as no UK company is really going to get near it:

[dangersimpson2] 01/10/2020 11:31

Think Graham proposed two different methodologies over time:

a. Cash + 0.5 x Inventories + 0.75 x Recievables - All Liabilities

b) 0.66 x (Cash + Inventories + Recievables - All Liabilities)

He suggested that an investor who bought a basket of securities below these levels would do very well over time.

For TON these levels are a) 43p per share b) 49p per share.

[netcurtains] 01/10/2020 11:22

profdoc: There are loads of definitions of netnet however I've gone for most basic, namely Current assets - total liabilities > market cap....

With your definition i doubt (alas) there is one share in UK that might fit the bill - although i think TRIAD PLC might be close (TRD) as I dont think it has an inventory (its a software house)...
I had a contract with them a few years back so I know the company reasonably well:


Here are the accounts from wall street journal (it has no inventory):

Its 83% of a netnet and has no inventory to deduct.

[profdoc] 01/10/2020 11:19

Shouldn't a Benjamin Graham netnet be calculated with one-third of inventory deducted and one fifth of receivables deducted?

[argylerich] 01/10/2020 08:54

Yup news not due until mid December

[value hound] 01/10/2020 08:23

Worth twice where it is now IMO - but it will take a lot of patience!

[netcurtains] 01/10/2020 08:21

Even in the UK more and more people are talking about the important need for better ventilation in housing due to covid:

This article makes good reading - there possibly will soon be grants for ventilation:

[netcurtains] 01/10/2020 08:06

Titon is 88.4% of a NETNET

(March 2020 figures from Wall Street Journal website)

Current Assets: 12999
TOTAL liabilities 4772

Difference: 12999 - 4772 = 8227
Market Cap: 9300

8227 is 88.4% of 9300...

So if Titon announce any good news the price should really fly, obviously not a day trade, might be months. But waiting 6 months for 50% rise is a very good investment (if it happens).

Main markets are South Korea and UK. South Korea is trying to deflate property bubble and UK is trying to inflate property bubble... Take your pick!

Titon mainly involved in ventilation.

[argylerich] 01/10/2020 06:52

Actually manufacturing both natural and mechanical ventilation systems they are already an established go-to company in this field 👍

[briangeeee] 30/9/2020 23:43

The whole world is talking about indoor air changes. Well the world apart from Titon!

[argylerich] 30/9/2020 20:42

It's not often I find something in the Gruaniad interesting, Now we'll have to see if there's an increase in demand as things pick up again.
When it comes down to it, it transmits through fluids, so a roaring fire should sort it too 😁
Edit: the first nudge up was mine, not the second.

[netcurtains] 30/9/2020 20:00

Interesting article from Germany:

Angela Merkel says ventilation may be one of cheapest and most effective ways of containing virus

[argylerich] 30/9/2020 14:05

Yup, I think that's why the rises/falls are so dramatic. My next quote for 5k was 86.75

[netcurtains] 30/9/2020 13:54

Blimy - it's still a NETNET stock so if results show anything positive it could really fly

[argylerich] 30/9/2020 13:46

This is tightly held, only 5k more caused this rise

[argylerich] 29/9/2020 16:43

I only bought 10k! maybe it's cleared an overhang?

[netcurtains] 29/9/2020 16:27

I almost fell off my chair.
The price has moved.
Dont breath

[netcurtains] 26/9/2020 08:45

Double success for Titon:
Good news stories (September 2020):


The Titon FireSafe® Air Brick is a finalist in both the DOMESTIC PRODUCT OF THE YEAR and the ANCILLARY PRODUCT OF THE YEAR categories.

The Titon FireSafe® Air Brick was introduced earlier this year following Dame Judith Hackitt’s recommendations in her post Grenfell Tower review of building safety, and the subsequent changes in ADB building regulations for external walls of buildings above a certain height to meet a Class A2 specification.

[netcurtains] 17/9/2020 20:51

wad collector: Judging by the flat line (the longest in its hisotry) it does imply we got it near the bottom so that is one good thing. In the scheme of things, a 4 month wait for a 10% rise (or higher) is pretty good compared to leaving it in the bank.
It depends on the chance of 10% or higher rise anywhere from here to January.

(using the NETNET formula against known data I make Titon the 17th cheapest company in the UK stock market - both AIM and FTSE. So there are a lot of bargains around but only about 16 of them appear to be cheaper than Titan).