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[fangorn2] 31/8/2016 08:19

arja31 Aug '16 - 08:10 - 17443 of 17444 0 0
what you forget is that we are a democracy or I thought we were.

What do you think Democracy is then?

Referendum, one man, one vote, result 52-48% to LEAVE.

To throw a tantrum and try, by whatever means,to overthrow the will of people is not democratic.

You are wrong as politicians are not there to represent the British people but to do what is right or wrong in their judgement.

No they're there to represent the people - and where the wishes of the people are known on key events it is up to the MP to represent their constituency, or else they'll not be voted for next time around. At most elections we gravitate to the party we have least disagreement with but in one offs, such as this referendum, the people's will is crystal clear,and MP's would be foolish to go against such. An obvious reason being the complete disregard of the will of people wont be taken lightly.

It is NOT mob rule !

Following wishes of people is not mob rule.


If the voters do not like what they do, they can be thrown out at elections

And when the MP's who have over turned the democratic will of people are voted out, and a Brexiteer put in their place, what will you moan about next in an efffort to overtun the result?

[fangorn2] 31/8/2016 08:14

arja30 Aug '16 - 21:20 - 17440 of 17442 0 0
fangorn- for you and anyone who wishes to be informed about the situation . Interesting !

The shadow international trade secretary, Barry Gardiner, also spoke out against May’s plans.

If I wishes to be informed I certainyl ouldnt listen to a dense shadow international trade secrtary. The fact you do says it all..


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“The logic of saying the prime minister can trigger article 50 without first setting out to parliament the terms and basis upon which her government seeks to negotiate – indeed, without even indicating the red lines she will seek to protect – would be to diminish parliament and assume the arrogant powers of a Tudor monarch,” he said.

There's plenty of logic as every member of parliament has already had a vote on the matter!

“Parliament cannot be sidelined from the greatest constitutional change our country has debated in 40 years.”

Parliament has already voted - every individual MP cast their vote.So to attempt to steam roll over democracy because most MP's didnt get the result they wanted sets a very bad precident - is that what you want?

Tim Farron, the leader of the Liberal Democrats, who have said they will fight the next general election on stopping Brexit, was also dismayed by the report.

He's an idiot

“The people narrowly voted to leave the EU, and we must respect that,” he said.

Brexit is Brexit.

“But the people did not elect Theresa May, and neither did they vote for the as-yet unknown outcome of David Davis’s negotiations.

They will be able to do so at the next General Election in 2020 - probably a good idea as Labour are imploding at the ballot box as Polls on Voting intentions showed yesterday...

Give you a clue - they solidify May's majority.

42% Conservative, 28% Labour.




“To impose a swift exit on the British people without giving the people or their representatives a say, or an opportunity to scrutinise the government’s as yet nonexistent plan for our country’s future, is a betrayal of Britain’s interests and of British democracy.”

Don't recall us getting that option in 1970's vote?

Nor that option when Blair handed over reins to Gordon imprudent Brown.

As I said,. you want to have your cake and eat it.

And the British people voted to leave the EU. There's no imposing od swift exit - in fact it's very much a case of a vocal minority of remoaners trying to impose their defeated opinion on the majority!!

p.s Btw who cares whether Trump / Putin is for Brexit. I hear Bernie Saunders and Castro are for Remain. Ditto Kim Wrong un.

How does that leave you?

Poor attempt at a smear by association you charlatan

[arja] 31/8/2016 08:10

what you forget is that we are a democracy or I thought we were . You are wrong as politicians are not there to represent the British people but to do what is right or wrong in their judgement . It is NOT mob rule ! If the voters do not like what they do, they can be thrown out at elections .
Nice to see TW holding up so far in a bad market after dow fall .

[excell1] 30/8/2016 21:33

“To impose a swift exit on the British people without giving the people or their representatives a say, or an opportunity to scrutinise the government’s as yet nonexistent plan for our country’s future, is a betrayal of Britain’s interests and of British democracy.”

To impose a swift exit on the British people Ha Ha. The British people voted to come out of the EU and gave our representatives that mandate to do just that.Just remember whatever the politicians think,they are there to represent the British people.The British people have voted to come out,those that don't like it,well I am sorry but tough.We do not need a parliamentary vote,the people have already spoken.

[arja] 30/8/2016 21:22

by the way , Putin and Donald Trump supported BREXIT .

[arja] 30/8/2016 21:20

fangorn- for you and anyone who wishes to be informed about the situation . Interesting !

The shadow international trade secretary, Barry Gardiner, also spoke out against May’s plans.


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“The logic of saying the prime minister can trigger article 50 without first setting out to parliament the terms and basis upon which her government seeks to negotiate – indeed, without even indicating the red lines she will seek to protect – would be to diminish parliament and assume the arrogant powers of a Tudor monarch,” he said.

“Parliament cannot be sidelined from the greatest constitutional change our country has debated in 40 years.”

Tim Farron, the leader of the Liberal Democrats, who have said they will fight the next general election on stopping Brexit, was also dismayed by the report.

“The people narrowly voted to leave the EU, and we must respect that,” he said.

“But the people did not elect Theresa May, and neither did they vote for the as-yet unknown outcome of David Davis’s negotiations.

“To impose a swift exit on the British people without giving the people or their representatives a say, or an opportunity to scrutinise the government’s as yet nonexistent plan for our country’s future, is a betrayal of Britain’s interests and of British democracy.”

[fangorn2] 30/8/2016 20:47

arja30 Aug '16 - 17:23 - 17430 of 17438 0 0
fanghorn- I stated the facts and you did NOT know what you voted for whereas the remain people did , ie status quo

Incorrect again Arja.

Facts absent in your scribblings.Plenty of vitriol,and puerile name calling however.

There is no status quo - it was leave or closer union. This inexorable move to closer union has been 60+ years in the making, incremental moves such that it is hoped most nations don't realise until it is too late.

And I knew exactly what I was voting for.

.I love freedom of movement and let's see how many of the brexit folk enjoy having to get a visa

Getting a Visa - big deal.We did it before, we can do it again. It's not difficult. You want to give up freedom of liberty & democracy just so you dont have to get a visa. Laughable.

Get a visa ( can be long process and not cheap) every time they fancy a holiday , perhaps having to book at last minute and pay more .

Long process? Drivel
Expensive, hardly.

Ah the scare mongering line with the "having to get a last minute booking & paying more"

Utter drivel.


arja30 Aug '16 - 19:20 - 17435 of 17438 0 0
fangorn- of course you are a European citizen and you should know that

Nope - never been a European citizen. A global citizen perhaps, a Commonwealth citizen, but certainly never a European citizen.

You base your claim on what?

I never voted to join EU - I voted to leave. I live in Britain. Last time I looked we werent part of the European continent.


arja30 Aug '16 - 19:52 - 17437 of 17438 0 0
gbh2 - great. hate to read your nonsense as you must have a low IQ !

I'd wager GBH2's IQ is double yours given your propensity to misrepresent & drivel mindlessly

[raffles the gentleman thug] 30/8/2016 20:01

the hate continues eh .... real shame this can't be a mutually cooperative thread limited to opinions on TW and the housing market ... but as ever too much to expect

[arja] 30/8/2016 19:52

gbh2 - great. hate to read your nonsense as you must have a low IQ !

[arja] 30/8/2016 19:20

fangorn- of course you are a European citizen and you should know that !

[arja] 30/8/2016 19:17

gbh2 - you really are a dummy and comment again without reading what i said . Who said the status quo was acceptable to the brexiteers or they would have voted to remain . That is obvious to most people .

[gbh2] 30/8/2016 18:42

"ie status quo"

Which simply wasn't good enough for the majority of voters - get over it clown !

[raffles the gentleman thug] 30/8/2016 18:39

arja ... good to see you've come to you senses and stopped this Brexit nonsense !!

I think I am right and believe much of what we are seeing is month-end positioning and mean reversion after a strong period of performance. Fundamentals for sector are excellent, so no doubts there, and there are two decent support lines one could argue, one around 158p where we bounced today and another at 163p, which we could get back to in a heartbeat.

Volumes are low across the board, and to me it doesn't make sense to bid banks in one direction and home builders in the other. No sense at all.

Beauty of this sector is that there are tonnes of catalysts ahead, whether economic data stats, housing surveys, or trading updates of peers. We have the next important one in three days time on Monday 6th September when Berkeley has its AGM

[arja] 30/8/2016 17:24

raffles - hope you are right as I bought yesterday and have traded TW quite a bit recently but go it wrong this time . Nice to see a little bounce near the close !

[arja] 30/8/2016 17:23

fanghorn- I stated the facts and you did NOT know what you voted for whereas the remain people did , ie status quo. I love freedom of movement and let's see how many of the brexit folk enjoy having to get a visa ( can be long process and not cheap) every time they fancy a holiday , perhaps having to book at last minute and pay more .

[raffles the gentleman thug] 30/8/2016 17:17

and I think next move on these excell01 is back up to 175p within the next eight to ten trading days. There is a reasonably good upward trending support line we broke through today at around 163p, but I am quite confident it will be re-established.

Net important sector catalyst is the BKG trading update next week, which will shed light on how London and SE have faired post referendum. On the basis these markets have been soft six months before the referendum, it'll be interesting to see whether confidence is returning. Any positive news at the margin and the sector tracks higher

[fangorn2] 30/8/2016 16:50

tiobs2 ,#
are you too thick to realise that you have NO IDEA what you voted for until pre article 50 discussions have taken place ???

I see you havent managed to converse without engaging in name calling. Just because he doesn't agree with you doesn't necessarily mean he is an idiot. Despite your protestations or opinions.

One could argee the same line viz the 1970's referndum as we certainly didn;t know what we were getting into then either.

FOM has to go.

So of course another referendum is necessary as everyone will then know the score and everyone can change their vote - that is the POINT !

It's pretty clear why you want another vote and it certainly is't anything to do with the democratic process or wanting everyone to be able to express themselves...

[fangorn2] 30/8/2016 16:47

arja30 Aug '16 - 13:15 - 17402 of 17426 0 0
Incidentally , you voted for Poles and other europeans to be kept out or kicked out

Incorrect. Yet again.

People voted for many things, one of which was the ability to "control EU migration"

Emphasis on "CONTROL" not "Abolish/End/Deport" as pro EU bigots such as yourself have attempted to paint as being the case.

[fangorn2] 30/8/2016 16:44

"arja30 Aug '16 - 11:27 - 17387 of 17424 0 0
fangorn2 - try to develop a SOH and be less xenophobic."

Eh how is wanting to govern oneself Xenophobic exactly?

Suggest you reread the bigotted drivel you scribbled immediately prior that I responded to!

Pot Kettle

Try to think like a European

I am not a European.

and you might eventually see the light

don;t you mean be a Comminust and you'll see the light because the EU is the biggest wealth transfer in history from rich to poor.

It would be fair to have another referendum before article 50 is triggered as we will then all know what a vote for BREXIT really means .

Why will it be fair?

What if you lose that - will you want yet another one because the previous two werent fair.

How about we just end the democratic process and you do as I say! Eh!

Can't have your cake and eat it geezwoir though clearly you're one o those snowflake progressives that attempts to...

[arja] 30/8/2016 16:42

tiobs2 ,#
are you too thick to realise that you have NO IDEA what you voted for until pre article 50 discussions have taken place ??? the UK might still have free movement ( hope so ) and that was your main reason for voting brexit . So of course another referendum is necessary as everyone will then know the score and everyone can change their vote - that is the POINT !

[raffles the gentleman thug] 30/8/2016 16:36

don't get me wrong excell1, I like LLOY a lot too, but its completely without catalysts for the foreseeable future, and today is really going up because US financials are up and nobody owns it. But I am a bit of a loss of see it sustainably rising higher, whilst the home builders should at a minimum be trading at their pre-referendum lows for the year, meaning 180s for TW.

Controversial you may say, but I think we have a supportive Autumn Statement to come, an expansionary budget, and stamp changes which will all be supportive to both demand and supply sides of the equation. And at least with TW there are catalysts around every corner viz a viz the sector and its peers which can provide impetus.

Finally TW is right back at the bottom of its gently sloping upward trend, whilst LLOY is trying to break out. And I don't think it can materially breakout without a further beneficial assessment of the UK economy, which will be helpful to home builders.

Did some huge trading today on both sides, and really really surprised by the strength of LLOY buying and Strength of TW selling. Someone clearly doing the opposite !!! Yikes !!

[excell1] 30/8/2016 16:26

raff.I think you should have done the opposite and come out of TW and stayed in LLOY.

[raffles the gentleman thug] 30/8/2016 16:21

Great recovery off the floor this afternoon, which bodes really well for tomorrow. Sold entirely of my LLOY holding to buy TW - an incredible 5% in the spread and can't see banks sustainably rising without home builders

[tlobs2] 30/8/2016 15:51

Polite notice to all BreMoaners ..................

The majority of people who got off their backsides voted by a significant MAJORITY to leave the EU.

So that’s it we are leaving.

The sooner the assorted idiots who keep asking for another referendum ought to wind their necks in.

We are heading for freedom so let’s crack on with it and stop the moaning/sulking.




PS I have just taken the opportunity to add some more today.