Taylor Wimpey Share Discussion Threads

[gbh2] 15/6/2016 14:03

The Greek situation is that the EU now have them by the short and curlies a situation we'll be in if they find out the British electorate are daft enough to want to remain.

[steeplejack] 15/6/2016 13:58

The US wouldn't let me in past half a year!Anyway,they'd make me contribute to a wall to keep out the Mexicans and I need all my pennies to buy gunboats to track down illegal immigrants in the English Channel.

I agree with the majority of your comments galeforce.

This is such an emotive issue simply because our politicians have allowed this political,legal creep.We should have nipped the Lisbon Treaty in the bud.Now,we're being asked to make a very difficult decision and the whole process has become devisive.The referendum process should have taken 6 weeks not 4 bloody months.Anyway,my vote has been cast by postal vote,done and dusted and I will watch the counting from poor old Greece,which as you say,should never have been allowed in in the first place.Strange they want to stay in really,while we have a strong inclination to leave.

[galeforce1] 15/6/2016 13:32

steeplejack - move to the USA and vote for Trump!

[steeplejack] 15/6/2016 13:30

I strongly suspect that many a young rose-tinted glassed character who voted us in the mid 70s are,in their old age ,arguing vociferously now to come out.Ah I hear you shout,but no one anticipated the Lisbon Treaty and the political union it involved.Well,that's why we have politicians sitting in Westminster and they haven't done a very good job of defending our national sovereignty by all accounts.Even Thatcher effectively buckled.These bright,nationally committed MPs will now take the full burden of responsibility,pushing aside the bureaucracy of Brussels.Let us forget the expenses scandal,duck houses in picturesque ponds,better to have our own home grown expense cheats!Let us join white van man plagued by good quality European labour,tattoo a Union Jack on our backside and emit a loud "Harry and St George"!

[fangorn2] 15/6/2016 12:36

Gale,

What's wrong with telegraph?



Toyota pledges to stay in UK even if country takes Brexit, Financial TIMES



just because it isn't in YOUR paper of preferred choice doesn't make it not so.

Guardian reader aren't you.


A BREXIT would definitely be a blow to the EU, but I think you'll find it's remarkably durable. For all its frustrations it's a net benefit to its members. AS it has expanded over the 40 years it has brought prosperity to Spain and Portugal

It's the Titanic heading for the submerged iceberg. It wont last.

I notice you omit Greece and Italy - EU brought them great prosperity? Really? You also fail to admit that much of whatever prosperity there has been down south is merely a debt financed illusion as the EU allowed Southern Europe to borrow on far cheaper interest rates than made sense!

[galeforce1] 15/6/2016 12:20

Fangorn

Your links are all from the Express and the Telegraph. I think that says it all. If you believe the nonsense coming from those papers, and even worse the Mail, you will believe anything.

omg

A BREXIT would definitely be a blow to the EU, but I think you'll find it's remarkably durable. For all its frustrations it's a net benefit to its members. AS it has expanded over the 40 years it has brought prosperity to Spain and Portugal, Ireland, the UK and now the same thing is happening in East Europe and the Balkans (which is why Serbia and Ukraine are desperate to join, I guess).

Anyway, that's my last word on this topic for today. Must do some work.

[fangorn2] 15/6/2016 12:06

Galeforce

Here's another fact -
The cost of coming out the Single Market will vastly exceed the cost of our current net contribution to the EU. Your 'savings' are an illusion.

Any evidence for that.

Leaving EU single market means we'd be subject to a 3% CET(Common External tariff)

We currently pay equivalent of 7% via our contributions I gather.

Cost of Top 100 EU regulations £33bn per year.

Cost of EU health tourism?
Cost of Wage compression(and need for income top ups/Housing)
Cost of creaking NHS/School places
Cost of not trainign & employing our own unemployed?

Cost of only being allowed a small slither of fishing rights in our own waters. Imapct on fishing towns, both direct employment,and indirect


Here's another fact -
A lot of the best and most export-generating industry in the UK is foreign-owned by multinationals (Nissan-Renault in the North-East, JLR in the West Midlands, etc). If we come out of the Single Market, these enterprises will route new investment away from their UK plants. The UK economy will suffer.

Norway SWF - we wont change our investing if Brexit, we'll invest more.


Toyota vow to remain in UK exposes ‘lies’ of europhiles




Hitachi to remain in UK regardless of Brexit vote




Finally -
One of our most profitable 'industries' is the City of London, whichis basically a conglomeration of mainly foreign banks who find it a convenient place to do business. Many of these will re-locate to Dublin, Paris, Frankfurt, et, if we come out of the Single Market.

They said the same about the ERM - they said the same about EURO.

Ultimately who are you going to trust more - 600 economists consistently wrong over the ERM, Euro, Financial crisis, or those few bright sparks that consistently called these events correctly??

My money is on the smart ones who consistently get things correct personally.

I'm with the Mellon.

Let's not forget how economically EU is -mass rates of unemployment, especially youth rates around -40-50% level in Southern parts. Italy,Spain teetering, possibly France as well. Greece looking for yet another bailout.

I dont want to be getting the chequebook out when this implodes frankly.Nor do I wish my children/children;s children to have to foot the bill either.

[omg48] 15/6/2016 12:05

How long do you think the EU will last anyway, in or out. The experiment has failed. History will look back and see that.
How many more bail outs in the future?

[galeforce1] 15/6/2016 12:00

omg -

The world would be a boring place if we all thought the same! We are all entitled to our opinions.

My own view is that coming out of the EU would be self-inflicted catastrophe.

The catastrophe would/will be inflicted by a combination of the old, who want to turn the clock back to a world of the post-war Anglophone commonwealth (good luck with that) and unskilled labour who think that their wages will rise if all those annoying, hard-working Poles get the boot.

The catastrophe will be felt by the young, who will grow up in a much poorer country. The old won't know about that, because they will be dead.

[omg48] 15/6/2016 11:46

Sorry Galeforce, you aint convinced me. Lets get out.

PS
Its not for economic reasons, which will happen in the short term, but for the good of our future generation, to not have to be governed by Brussells

[steeplejack] 15/6/2016 11:45

Strangely I don't think I've come across anyone who really believes we'll be better off outside the EU.They play the immigration,sovereignty card only.I'd advise a perusal of the Financial Times editorials and advocates of leave will probably abandon an economic reason to Brexit.

[omg48] 15/6/2016 11:36

After the debacle of the so called New Deal David Cameron tried to achieve, do you think that if we vote stay in, there would be any chance of negotiating any significant changes. I think not.
PS.
If we leave EU we might be able to offer better pay to our NHS staff with the money we save, attracting our younger generation.

[steeplejack] 15/6/2016 11:27

The American banks have been sniffing round Frankfurt and Paris for years but don't like their restrictive practises so even if we left,I wouldn't worry too much about the City.

As for our cash,with our deficits,I'm not sure we're the sugar daddy of Europe.Morever,if we leave the EURO,as the FT points out,the ensuing uncertainty will make it very hard to attract foreign capital to fund that deficit.I don't think the Remain camp are running a very good campaign.They don't have to resort to threats and jibes,just pick up the FT and read the raw economic data,we'll be in for a very rough ride if we leave.
Ah,but it's all about the abridgement of our national sovereignty.Better to stay in our own little room then and protect our little castle but of course,there's a big world out there.Strange that Japan likes to use us as a gateway to Europe and would rather we stayed in then or that the USA would rather we as an ally continued to wield influence from within the EU rather than without.China I don't think,really gives a stuff either way other than it might start producing a few widgets for German manufacture that we used to provide.

The point about currency is well made.If we were a member of the Euro,I'd vote to leave but we're not .So the primary issues are immigration and the sovereignty of our courts.The latter does concern me and I think we should tell Strasbourg to keep their snout well out.Immigration concerns me less as a referendum issue.This is because I think the real problem will prove enduring.We will have to live with uncontrollable immigration from outside of the EU.A consequence of our imperialist past.Anyway,if our economy takes a nosedive,a lot of tax paying Europeans will simply leave and find work elsewhere,problem solved.

I've really agonised about how to vote but I've decided to vote "remain".At the end of the day,I'm not quite sure that I want to give our European partners a poke in the eye.Rather work from within to find solutions to thorny problems,problems they are all pushing to resolve.

PS £200m a week saved on EU contributions is miniscule compared with the weekly NHS budget that is some £ 2bn.Ah but if we controlled immigration,we wouldn't have such a strain on the NHS.(Wouldn't have so many immigrants working there of course,that's the catch 22).

[omg48] 15/6/2016 11:11

Galeforce, you say it is all sentimental. You don't state one actual fact. All presumptions. The facts for Brexit are real. Massive immigration, more pressure on NHS, shools, roads, housing, jobs etc., etc., etc., We will save at least Nett £200 million a WEEK (Fact). Our great entrepreneurs, JCB, James Dyson I believe want to leave. We can trade with the whole world and Europe. I can't see Huge German car manufacturers imposing restrictions or tariffs to affect the massive amount of trade we have with them. I'm out.

[gbh2] 15/6/2016 11:00

The vast majority of what you describe will happen if we stay, it's clear they only want our cash, Germany want our stock market, car manufacturing will always go to the country that offers manufacturers the biggest kick back and unlike EU currencies ours will always be able to find its own level.

[steeplejack] 15/6/2016 10:59

This country,for better or worse,has an island mentality.Good in some respects but rather self centred and perhaps selfish on the other.Little thought is given to problems facing Europe.The daily immigrant problem facing Greece,Spain,Italy.No,it's all about US!
I can't believe that the EU powers that be,could be so naive as to believe a Remain vote means Britain even tacitly consents to creeping political union.How could they,as extremists parties pop up all over Europe.
As far as immigration is concerned,well over half of all immigrants come from outside the EU.What are you going to do there?The vast majority of EU immigrants work hard and pay their taxes.Perhaps we should hope that a Brexit vote sees the whole unholy alliance crumble.Better still,let's hope the economic consequences of leaving the EU means no one wants to come to this country in the first place!

[galeforce1] 15/6/2016 10:48

The 'upside' to a BREXIT is almost all sentimental. You will feel better about yourselves.

But the 'downside' to a BREXIT will be brutally real - a collapsed currency, higher interest rates, an exit from the Single Market, a rapid contract of the the City, the gradual departure of important foreign-owned industry like JLR & Nissan-REnault, a break-up of the UK, etc.

Be sane. Stay in the EU.

[omg48] 15/6/2016 10:21

Immigration is OK if it is controlled, like Australia, let in the people we need. In the EU we would have 300,000 a year for the next decade at least. There are four other countries waiting to enter plus Turkey in future. How can we cope with that steeplejack?

[steeplejack] 15/6/2016 09:21

Times change and wise men change with them.When we were a proud nation as you describe Britain,the country was already in decline,steel production started dipping a century back.China was under the mallet of opium oppression and Africa under undisguised colonialism.In this post imperialist age,the European nations would do well to stick together.Together we stand,divided we fall.Oh and if you're worried about immigration just remember that well over 50% of immigrants come from outside the EU and breed like topsy.The greater body of EU immigrants,work hard and pay their taxes.Oh and if you're talking about proud nations,remember that two squadrons of fighters in the Battle of Britain were flown by Poles and another by Czechs.

[sr2day] 15/6/2016 05:13

this country has a proud nation and it use to be a leader in Europe and the world.it needs to leave to regain that status and Europe knows it will be weaker without Britain in it.however,this country does not need to be shackled with the bureaucrats of Europe for any longer.