Seeing Machines Share Discussion Threads

[jpuff] 21/12/2023 13:13

All interesting technology and they seem to be doing well, so the $64k question is why are the shares such a poor and multi year underperforming investment?

[boonboon] 21/12/2023 11:36

But also a much higher cost base.For what it's worth I think long term seeing machines is the one to be in, but short term Smarteye might pick up more contracts. They're not putting the money into R&D so might struggle in future.

[amt] 21/12/2023 11:07

Seeing machines turnover is about 3 times that of smarteye and growing faster.

[boonboon] 21/12/2023 10:05

They're shutting down tomorrow till the 7th of January so wouldn't expect anything other than CES announcements at the beginning of January.

[unionhall] 21/12/2023 09:37

"The fact is we've won 2 small contracts this year and only 1 this quarter so far...."

Small indeed but they were both in this quarter.

[nvhltd] 21/12/2023 06:29

There's still a few days to go before Paul fails to deliver on yet another of his 'expectations' to deliver several RFQ wins before the end of the year. The lack of share price reaction is the result of historical failures to deliver on contracts, opportunities, growth, revenue and profit. The market just doesn't trust the company to deliver anymore. Talk has been cheap over the years and Paul has continued in that vain of over hyping expectations with loose statements. The last public statements said they were working on 12 RFQ's,several would drop by the end of the year and we are firmly in the second billion dollar market size. The fact is we've
won 2 small contracts this year and only 1 this quarter so far so the market wants more, much more before they start to let the share price rip.

2023 has yet again been another very disappointing year for delivery.

[napoleon 14th] 20/12/2023 17:10

Another contract, but for 2026, & spread over how long?
No wonder the shares did not react, but this is progress anyway...
Seems like EVs & "smart cars" are right up our street, but when does it pay???

What we need is proper eps & ebitda to get share price moving.
One day, Rodney, one day....!

[boonboon] 20/12/2023 12:05

Their market cap is slightly bigger than us so the market doesn't see them as a smaller company.

[amt] 20/12/2023 11:41

That's another significant win.
Smarteye is a very small company compared to Seeing Machines.

[gutterhead] 20/12/2023 08:51

Whoopee……;
Not
Revenue between now and 2028

[boonboon] 20/12/2023 08:07

Still a long way to go to get to the $1 billion order book.

[wsm812] 20/12/2023 07:49

£30m lifetime contract is a nice starter, however I don't think this alone will affect the share price much. I am happy to be proven wrong however!

[hazl] 20/12/2023 07:18

That's more like it!

[skinny] 20/12/2023 07:01

20 December 2023

Seeing Machines appointed to deliver US$30M Automotive program for new European OEM customer

Seeing Machines Limited (AIM: SEE, "Seeing Machines" or the "Company"), the advanced computer vision technology company that designs AI-powered operator monitoring systems to improve transport safety, announces its 17(th) Automotive program award with an existing European Tier-1 customer for a new European OEM.

The program will be delivered via the Company's FOVIO e-DME software library (embedded Driver Monitoring Engine) and is scheduled to start production in 2026, carrying an initial lifetime value of US$30M.


more.....

[smithless] 18/12/2023 12:52

See Smarteye is up 30%+ today, after a design win with a North American OEM and tier1. I have no idea if Smarteye is a good or bad company, but it does come out with sensational PR. It now states it has 296 design wins with 20 OEM's which I thought wow. Then I looked at its Jan - Sept '23 revenue for automotive and it was just £4.4m on 229 design wins. I read how Tobii defines a design win, which it found hard to put any value on. This is what Tobii states.

The automotive industry is rapidly changing due to the ongoing technology shift, disruption from new entrants, and accelerated innovation pace. This is also causing a changing purchasing behavior from OEMs. Design wins in the automotive industry are not a guarantee of future revenue, and sales may not correlate with design win values. Mid-life redesigns and decisions to re-source components can change the projected timeline of a design, or models may be canceled entirely. Pricing estimates are made at the time of a request for quotation by an OEM. Changing market or other conditions between the time of a request for quotation and the actual order may require a lower average selling price than initially expected. In combination with inherently long lead times in the industry, forward-looking projections of lifetime value, volumes, and average selling price may give rise to undue reliance and overconfidence in the earnings potential and value of each deal. As a result, Tobii does not believe it is possible to, with a sufficiently high degree of certainty, provide guidance on the revenue or potential future opportunities with manufacturers.

[willoicc] 18/12/2023 10:15

Seems like it is a very standard thing to install Car Dash Cam to the after market.



Why not Seeing products?

Individuals can be much easier to persuade to improve their in car alertness and safety specially for frequent, tiring long-distance driving?

[nvhltd] 15/12/2023 22:02

I do follow Colin.

I disagree with you on the cash position in ours and Smarteye case because their product is selling and regulated for use. If the cash runs out both companies would be bought. Existing shareholders are the ones that would lose out and not the company itself. In our case at the very least Magna would take us over. The critical thing at this stage is does the tech work and if it does the cash position is irrelevant because we'd be bought.

It's not such an concern for existing shareholders in SEE yet, but it is for Smarteye investors, but not the company.

My point is posters keep banging on about Smarteye's cash position and I'm saying that at this point it's irrelevant to the company itself because it's proven to work and won't be allowed to fail now so close to mass market adoption of dms. It would be bought and the losers will be current investors and not the company. It will survive regardless (within reason).

[smithless] 15/12/2023 16:39

Chinese OEM's generally want cheap and cheerful and will go to Tier 2's how can provide basic DMS. They will just meeting EU conditions, but not euroncap (will require all of the cabin to be monitored and very few have the capabilities to this - Seeing M and a less extent Smarteye) Not a space Seeing M operates in, as time and resources wasted on thin margins. Someone like Toyota may have its own low level DMS and may bring in an outsider like Smarteye for tech help or it may go to Seeing M for a whole solution. Until a RFQ is issued by the tier 1 to tier 2 supplier its just guess work which OEM will go with whom. Paul will use Seeing M time and resource on those he thinks will give the best return, thus why it would be foolish chasing all of them, a point he made re not getting involved with truck OEM's.

Re cash its always relevant. If you run out of cash in the pre cash flow positive stage with big R&D bills to pay you go bust. Colin Barnden is very up on DMS and is overall pro Seeing M. Worth following just to keep up to date
hxxps://my.linkedin.com/posts/colin-barnden-1081376_seeing-machines-partners-with-mobileye-to-activity-7028364668779802624-d35d

[skinny] 15/12/2023 14:45

3 hefty trades of 7,438,284 earlier above the offer.

[nvhltd] 15/12/2023 14:40

Blackpudding and Smithless that's my point and what I'm trying to get my head around.

First of all it doesn't matter whether it's Toyota or Tesla my understanding is that if they are going to sell in Europe then they need a DMS going forward.

Secondly, what really constitutes a DMS system? What are the minimum requirements to sell cars that first satisfy GSR and Secondly get a star rating with Euroncap? Does it have to be a camera based system and does anyone know who the potential suppliers are for non camera and camera based system outside of SEE, Smarteye, Cipia and Tobii?

So if Toyota use Denso and we don't have a relationship with them as a tier 2 does that mean we can never win Toyota?

Likewise is or could the likes of Valeo have relationship with both Seeing Machines and Smarteye so that can offer a choice of systems for their oem customers?

So the point is do we work exclusively with certain Tier 1's which gives a certain level if protection, but then may limit the amount of OEM's we can work with or could we supply any tier 1, but in competition with Smarteye as we have no exclusivity?

I'm asking because I don't know why Paul would want to limit the amount of tier 1's we work with and default reduce our opportunities?

Finally, I think the cash position of both Seeing Machines and Smarteye is now irrelevant if the technology of both companies is sound. The only people the cash and profitability affects is generally the current investors who will lose out. If these systems are mandated and fit for purpose the cash position becomes less and less important because someone will buy them out if necessary. In our case Magna will pull the rug from under our feet if cash becomes an issue.

[wsm812] 15/12/2023 13:46

Pessimism is not a bad tactic when assessing one's own decisions as, if proved correct we feel vindicated or if proved wrong we benefit from an unexpected change in fortunes.

If you do not think this company will pay off for you then you should sell now and cut your losses.

[blackpudding13] 15/12/2023 12:51

I think valeo and Magna will clean up and the rest of the tier 1's will be scrambling about for the dregs which will not interest us. Just waiting on the truth to come out

[smithless] 15/12/2023 09:06

There are many tier 1's Valeo, Mitsubishi, Aptiv, Veoneer/Magna, Bosch, Hyundai MOBIS, Denso etc. Toyota uses mainly Denso, but as yet DMS is Euro focused will most probably use Bosch. Companies like BMW and VW see DMS as much more than a regulation box tick and see it as a whole new path to cabin entertainment - Toyota/Lexus are quite slow in this space. I think they will go for a more basic system of DMS and will regret it when Euro ENCAP only gives 5* to those who have a full cabin monitoring system.

Seeing M is well ahead in this space and don't be fooled by Smarteye, who win a lot of design wins, but as stated in their 2022 annual report have yet to win a request for quote, which is the only way to work out who is ahead in this game.

Smarteye have a very good PR machine and they need it as they will need another funding round asap. If Smarteye start issuing the number of vehicles with their DMS on a quarterly basis on the road I might change my outlook on them. But their current approach of design wins and thinking OEM's will bypass Tier1's for DMS software, I think is flawed - Toyota/lexus made that mistake with their nav infotainment system for years, until they outsourced it