Scancell Share Discussion Threads

[inanaco] 07/7/2021 08:07

Gazza - 05 Jul 2021 - 17:53:15 - 41578 of 41691 Using immunology to fight cancer. - SCLP
Inan,
I can assure you I do understand the science enough to commit a substantial investment.
I also understand it is not 100% certain that this will ever make a return.
It's the latter that is the flaw in your understanding.



Gazza is in profit ....

and understands everything ....

including Grants with equity attached

Royalties with cost of sales attached ...

Royalties written down to 20%


your skill set Gazza ............

[bermudashorts] 07/7/2021 08:04

Gazza - thank you!

[bermudashorts] 07/7/2021 08:03

You seem unable to grasp that 'not failed' is not the same thing as 'proven' and that is why LD talks about the 'approach' being validated and further evidence being required to support that approach.

The whole point about clinical research and clinical trials is to test, test and test more to identify the unpredictable so that the only drugs that make it to market are safe and effective. So this 'show me a mechanism of failure' line is nonsense - if mechanisms of failure were predictable there'd be no need for clinical trials....and drugs do fail right up until post phase III. You simply can't deny risk.

I repeat again, if you didn't keep denying it or dismissing it as drivel then we wouldn't need to even be discussing it.

[oldnotwise] 07/7/2021 08:00

21.62/22.39

[gazza] 07/7/2021 08:00

Inan, This is what Burble wrote"If you understand the science, you can also understand the risks involved in this area of investment/business."By denying risk all you are doing is1) showing you can't understand written English And 2) you don't really understand the science sufficiently to be able to recognise risk.

[inanaco] 07/7/2021 07:59

Bermuda

The only person that made a fuss about this is You on the LSE ...

its as if you where desperate to show that Risk applies ... and your desperation tried to show separation .. between Burble and Myself ....

nobody reacted .... why because they all buy shares .. every one knows they go up and down ... you cannot say i have not experienced the feeling at 3.5p wtf is this market doing ... the market was risky .. but not scancell ... I bought heavy against the market sentiment ..


""People respect Burble's posts and may act on his comments. It's important that they understand he is not denying the risk or agreeing with your position.""

let me explain that the risk of holding for both of us is Identical ie we could both lose money

however ... ""i hold happy""

you hold with the ""worry of losing"" ....

that is the only difference

[inanaco] 07/7/2021 07:51

EXACTLY

""if you understand the science, you understand the areas of risk.""


Prof Lindy Durrant, Joint CEO of Scancell Holdings and Professor of Cancer Immunotherapy at Nottingham University, commented: “These preliminary results show for the first time that Scancellâ€T82;s ImmunoBody® vaccine, SCIB1, can elicit melanoma-specific immune responses in patients that appear to be associated with clinical benefit and provides clinical validation for the ImmunoBody® approach. The assessment of a higher dose in patients with evaluable disease and the further assessment of immune responses in Part 2 of the Phase 1/2 trial should provide further evidence to support the use of ImmunoBody® vaccines for the treatment of cancerâ€ᦙ3;.


so when i ask you to tell me which one has failed

SCIB1 or Keytruda

you cant answer ............ but its risky

[bermudashorts] 07/7/2021 07:48

Don't be so childish. Nobody here would be talking about risk if you didn't keep denying its existence. Burble's comment re. risk could be taken in exactly the opposite way - ie. if you understand the science, you understand the areas of risk.

Early clinical trial results for SCIB1 were excellent in resected patients and promising in those with tumour load, however, being clinically tested in 16 and 15 patients respectively does NOT = proven and no risk. LD would be the first to point that out.

All new drugs start out as no more than a hypothesis and every stage of development is designed to prove/disprove that hypothesis, right from the earliest stages of preclinical research, through animal testing and then at every stage of clinical trials. SCIB1 is still at the early stages of clinical trials and it's simply not true to say there is no risk or that it is proven as a drug.

As for finding peer reviewed papers - what a silly comment. Of course you'll find paper after paper which support the hypothesis behind Scancell's platforms, you'll also find plenty of mouse data and of course it all helps to mitigate the risk but it is still there.

People respect Burble's posts and may act on his comments. It's important that they understand he is not denying the risk or agreeing with your position.

[inanaco] 07/7/2021 07:40

the Key to learning ...............

"""Yes we have had our differences along the way, but I am happy to have been challenged on my posts by him and others and be presented with new data as I feel this can only strengthen my knowledge and make me go away and research further."" Burble


i refer to my posts back in 2013 .........

show me the negative and i will argue against it ........

if you win .. then the risk climbs on my shares

""Nobody won""

[inanaco] 07/7/2021 07:35

Bermuda

I have always posted about

"find me the mechanism of Failure"

Burble follows the same principle ..

[inanaco] 07/7/2021 07:32

the FULL TEXT .... written by Burble PHD

AB, I really don't mind and don't really care to be honest. This board should not be about infighting and one-up-man-ship and instead should be about education, research and critique of the science and business, not of each others personalities, knowledge or lack of.

If it wasn't for Inan, his research and knowledge, I probably wouldn't be here or possibly wouldn't have been here so early on in my investment journey. I first invested in SCLP back in 2011 when I was sat working at Pfizer. I sat down and googled any listed company in the UK and what they did. Then I started watching these chat threads from the sidelines. For a number of years, I have been a wall-flower, listening in from the sidelines to this board and others. Reading, understanding and researching. Inan has been incredibly informative to me and many others across the years with his research into scancell. Yes we have had our differences along the way, but I am happy to have been challenged on my posts by him and others and be presented with new data as I feel this can only strengthen my knowledge and make me go away and research further.

For me this board should be about educating people, answering questions people may have about the science in a way that is accessible to all. But also, give a factual balanced view which highlights strengths and weaknesses of the research. So often on pharma investments it's easy for many to get drawn into believing the science is infallible, that it will lead to successful therapies for patients and profits for us all as investors. But the sad truth is many pharma companies and their promising early phase drugs fail in clinical trials. Hence I have always tried to present as neutral and balanced view as possible by presenting the science behind SCLP, highlighting areas where it could fail, but also highlight areas where our platforms have strengths over and above what others in the area have to offer.

My reason for investing lies on the fact I believe SCLP have platforms which can change cancer treatment for the better, not just for one disease but for cancer as a whole. The financial gain for me as an investor, is an aside from this.

If you understand the science, you are able to make your own decisions as to where this company is going. If you understand the science you realise that SCLP is taking a different approach to others which could unlock many therapies for patients across the globe in oncology and now infectious disease. If you understand the science, you can also understand the risks involved in this area of investment/business.

[inanaco] 07/7/2021 07:28

i didn't hijack anything i just re-posted it .. declaring it as Burbles work

not my fault you have had your nose put out of joint ... especially over your defence of Ivy's dreadful posts and you being unable to recognise a T cell is a t cell

however if you feel you can make the argument that Immunobody is NOT validated despite the CSO of scancell and the chair of Nottingham Uni .. etc etc declaring it is .. then best of luck with that one

as my post contained ............


""" when they try they are met with an avalanche of peer reviewed papers which reinforce scancells work """

ATB

[bermudashorts] 07/7/2021 07:20

Inanaco,

The risk is real, no matter how much you try to blind people with science and please do not hijack Burble's excellent posts to suggest he agrees with your 'no risk/proven' mantra.

[inanaco] 07/7/2021 07:14

it does not matter what drivel is posted about Risk ..... you cannot escape validated

and those advocating high risk .. cannot quantify it ...

and when they try they are met with an avalanche of peer reviewed papers which reinforce scancells work

then they get all stroppy ..

[inanaco] 07/7/2021 07:10

concentrate on whats Validated

Immunobody .....

That is all you need to do ... everything else is a bonus

next trial immunobody Plus Checkpoint prove up the synergy between a validated SCIB1 and a Validated Check Point

next trial Covid Prove up the addition of Avidmab and delivery system

but the Core immunobody is already validated ............ it works

[inanaco] 07/7/2021 07:02

Burble

"""If you understand the science, you are able to make your own decisions as to where this company is going. If you understand the science you realise that SCLP is taking a different approach to others which could unlock many therapies for patients across the globe in oncology and now infectious disease. If you understand the science, you can also understand the risks involved in this area of investment/business."""

[ivyspivey] 07/7/2021 07:02

Morning Small crow,
As you will know I was extremely confident in MTFB given the successful p3 results,the institutional backing and many other things but as Inanaco says it was a binary bet on FDA Approval but it was de risked far beyond any of the SCLP platforms as it had gone much further down the regulatory Approval pathway.
As Inanaco says the beauty here is the variety and diversity of the platforms and the potential huge upside.
With these multiple shots at goal I am very confident that from these levels will come in but it needs real quantifiable data to truly validate these platforms and until that time there is the risk.
I was more confident in the other one so had more invested there as it was much closer to commercialisation whereas this is much further away and we know what happened to the other one so a salutary lesson not to get too emotionally involved in any share
ATB

[inanaco] 07/7/2021 06:58

part 2

this is the Key which the majority don't get

a natural T cell is a t cell .........

we know they work

Scancell is not creating some magical T cell ..... what it is doing is "activating them" in the most efficient way

a T cell against cancer is the same as a t cell against a virus

what is the most potent t cell for cancer will also will eradicate a Virus

it does NOT matter what the target is .... if it can be killed by a T cell ... immunobody can be programmed with it ....

that is the essence of Confidence ... understanding that we are programming T cells

its the T cells that do the work ...... Proven by millions of years of evolution

and they work best at a very specific "activation" process

so Check points like Keytruda bind to Natural T cells ..... and they synergise

its an approved drug .... thus if a vaccine technology has validated High Avidity t cell then keytruda will bind to it .... the cancers PD-1 ligand is Blocked

the risk of trial failure becomes tiny because the efficacy argument has been removed ie we already know because its validated ... so probably only down to AE events which a more likely to be the check point because its systemic than the t cell activated by immunobody

because if the t cell attacked self it would have attacked any off target cell that expressed the antigen ... in over 30 patients ... an auto immune response but "nothing" detected

[inanaco] 07/7/2021 06:41

small crow .. part 1

I am going to use Burbles text in the reply ...my posting history also contains similar MTFB was a singular target share one shot on goal if that had been successful you may have got spin offs from it.

but the Key to understanding the value currently in Scancell is immunobody its been through a major trial and all other targets have all yielded "High Avidity" that is an easy test all you doing its simulating blood with a tiny amount of target antigen, low avidity t cells don't respond high avidity does.

""The availability of the TCR, coreceptors, and peptide-MHC complexes to interact with each other determine T-cell structural avidity (Figure 1). Additionally, the sensitivity of a T cell to triggering by its antigen is termed “functional avidity” or “avidity”; and is defined as the concentration of peptide able to induce 50% activation of the antigen-specific T-cell pool. Basically this is a measure of passing activation thresholds and subsequent induction of signaling and biological function upon establishing a stable interaction with the APC""

Burble

As a pipeline, what stands out for Scancell vs. other pharma/biotech startups is the fact that the bulk of their products are platforms. This means they have almost infinite scope to generate new therapies once the platform is proved to work. So whilst there is risk with any product and platforms are no different, once one of these makes it through trials to the clinic, the platform is validated and so any number of 'flavours' of that platform, targetting any number of targets becomes available. Covidity validates Immunobody and Avidimab and a new needle-free delivery system in a single set of trials. SCIB1 trials validates immunobody in cancer and the new Moditope trial (esp. phase 2) is 4 hard to treat cancer trials in one.

If you compare this to a lot of biotechs/pharma they put all their eggs in a single basket with a single product. If that fails, it's back to the drawing board. If it works, many companies will buy that product and incorporate it into their own portfolio. Scancell platforms if validated could be v.v.valuable especially if licenced out to any number of players in the field of infectious disease or oncology.

[small crow] 06/7/2021 23:36

Ivyspivey, Are you more or less confident of this than you were of MTFB??

[panama7] 06/7/2021 23:08

Wigwammwe, your last post sums up perfectly what a bed wetter you are. anyone with an ounce of humanity will treat people with humanity and not expect them to be treated any differently jabbed or unjabbed. It is pretty obvious you have zero humanity hence why your stuck behind your sofa scared to venture out into the big wide world just in case some stranger comes within 6 feet of you and you don't know whether they have taken the experimental medical treatment or not.

[ivyspivey] 06/7/2021 21:34

I would imagine they would ideally look to do a head to head as they would have pretty good data on all combinations of boosters of current Vax which mainly work on S protein via nABs.
So what they would be looking for imo is the T Cell response and maybe some memory response which we think SCLP is much more likely to generate.
So although I expect SN15 or 17 t9 be used as a booster from Autumn 2022 I think the really big potential is in following years as they have a lot more data on length of immunity of different approaches.
Other question is what variants may be around at the time and hiw existing Vax work.
I know they have high hopes of the intra nasal Vax so SCLP needs its niche

[wigwammer] 06/7/2021 20:57

PeePee7 - well I can't imagine why people think you will bore all and sundry about covid at any opportunity!! The waitress would correctly be far more confident about taking the mask off if she knew the people in the restaurant were vaxxed.. you are not.. (control group, behind the sofa, scared of needles).. :)

[emptyend] 06/7/2021 20:45

I think if there was a challenge trial leg (backed by government) they would want to go head to head to pick the best late 2022 booster shot.