Raven Prop P Discussion Threads

[igbertsponk] 05/7/2021 09:04

And the original

[igbertsponk] 05/7/2021 09:00

Bit of news

[kenny] 05/7/2021 08:44

Still lots of shares looking for firm holders- coming from the Invesco placing.

[flyfisher] 05/7/2021 08:16

A lack of faith in the directors would contribute to the high yield.

[rayg5] 05/7/2021 06:46

Yes, Kenny, you've mentioned that threshold before. Very reassuring and of course we know that the directors have loads of Prefs. I really don't understand why the yield is still as high as it is. Russia under Putin is a strong economy. We in the west might not like the regime but the ordinary Russians look beyond the endemic corruption. The official view in Europe is a bit sniffy but that's reflected in the high yield.

[kenny] 04/7/2021 21:30

Yes. As is any question of redemption - because it requires 75% of those voting to approve. Look at the holders of preference and ordinaries to appreciate that redemption is not going to occur.

[rayg5] 04/7/2021 18:30

...which implies that the par value is irrelevant?

[rik shaw] 04/7/2021 17:44

The redemption value is (i) the Fixed Amount (being £1)and (ii) a sum equal to all arrears and accruals of the Preference Dividend

[kenny] 03/7/2021 20:23

Some were issued at 100p and some at 132p.

[rayg5] 03/7/2021 17:28

1p...but what were these prefs issued at, Kenny?

[kenny] 03/7/2021 16:54

Just to remind everyone that par value is 1p per share!

[rayg5] 03/7/2021 16:00

I also note that the Invesco sell off didn't result in the bulk of holders having any opportunity to buy below par.I don't see any support for such a cynical move as disposing to a buyer or redeeming at par.

[rayg5] 03/7/2021 15:50

I think buying back or transferring the Prefs at par would not be popular. They would need a vote at an EGM. That would be a slap in the face if it were to go through.

[my retirement fund] 03/7/2021 11:49

Well they could sell the entire business to another business allowing redemption of the prefs at par for example, yes Invesco could have but then invesco obvously are not interest in sweating it out for the extra millions doing so, its pocket change to them and an exit from some complicated set-up with assets in Russia was probably something they could do without

[hindsight] 03/7/2021 10:48

MRF agree but Invesco could have feed the shares in at a higher price than they got offered from the BoDs.

[rayg5] 03/7/2021 10:14

How would you see their greed and opportunism affecting RAVP?

[my retirement fund] 03/7/2021 09:33

You can see the phenomenon here with a quick eyelash at big shed style commercial funds such as whr or bbox. The challenge for Raven shareholders will be avoiding the company being stolen from them cheaply. The fly in the ointment seems to be the greed of the BOD who have their snouts neck deep in the troth and will engineer any scenario to stay that way.

[my retirement fund] 03/7/2021 08:48

The move to giant warehousing for online is a world wide phenomenon, its not just the UK that has seen a shortage.

[holts] 03/7/2021 08:16

Cc2014

Thanks for info on HL they may be a better bet than III for me .

[kenny] 03/7/2021 01:50

Rumour is that the company is one of the bidders on a warehouse, for about 50m sterling.

If the company proceeds, they obviously have greater scope to expand than I figured. Also, a very good relationship with their bankers.

Finally, and importantly for RAVP, it would also suggest the coupon on these preference shares is a lot more gilt-edged than the market is giving credit for.

Quite a surprising bit of news to me - I rather thought that for the next 5 years, the company would be static and just focus on paying the preference dividend and paying the balance as dividends on the ordinaries. This, so that the directors made excessive profits for themselves through the joint venture.

I rather thought that a static next 5 years, by itself, would be great for RAVP - because in order for the joint venture to pay off for the directors, the company needs to pay dividends on the ordinaries. Importantly, they cannot pay dividends on the ordinaries without firstly paying the coupon on the preference. In other words, in order for the greedy directors to reap excessive rewards via the joint venture, they have to ensure the the coupon on the preference is firstly paid.

[cc2014] 02/7/2021 14:08

HL will only let you open new positions in bonds/PIBS settled through CREST

Of those you mention I don't think HL deal in NABB or NBS, although whether this is because they don't settle through CREST or no-one has ever asked I don't know.

The others are on-line dealing. Liquidity can often be non-existent, or rather there will be plenty of liquidity when you don't want to buy and none when you do, but that's common to all providers.

Getting new stocks/bonds set up with HL the last year has not been a good experience. HTOP they have refused twice to set up for me citing lack of time due to Covid. They appear to have too few staff and anything to do with corporate actions on anything "not mainstream" has been challenging.

Phone dealing costs 1%, (£20 min and £50 max) so that's a problem in a fast moving market when the online quotes start disappearing due to low liqudity on these instruments. Phone dealing is hit and miss. Some of the dealers are great and will get you a good price. Others are out of their depth and you might as well talk to a wall.

No charges for holding shares or bonds.

I can't say I can recommend them or not recommend them.

[cwa1] 02/7/2021 13:06

Thanks Holts

Most of those I've had or traded elsewhere but, thankfully, none of them transferred in from EQI

[holts] 02/7/2021 12:53

Had RAVP payment today .I can't get quotes for CAF1 5% sterling bond 12/4/26 NOTP. Nottingham building society PIBS 7/ 7/8 NABB. Nationwide b/S 7.859 2030 SKIP. Skipton b/S. 12/. 7/8. PIBS NBS. Nationwide Building society Core capital deferred, MBSR , that's so far , I would guess most PIBS will also be the same .I have approached HL to see how I can check what they trade , although I recall seeing a post noting they have reduced by a few recently , HL seem cheaper for holding just shares and bonds also .

[rik shaw] 02/7/2021 08:21

Got EQI/ii dividend credited this morning first thing.

[cwa1] 02/7/2021 07:15

Holts

If you don't mind me asking, which fixed interest counters is it you can't buy with them? I've transferred a slug of them over from EQI and I might as well know early which ones I might have problems either adding too, or selling for that matter!

Cheers

PS: I've had it confirmed by ii that the dividend issue referred to above IS the issue for "delayed" payments