Provexis Share Discussion Threads

[huntergls] 28/10/2024 08:03

Yes I think your right Gixer. From the AGM it seems DSM are putting a lot of effort into the Gut products. Hopefully they get a major your global on board. We were also told it takes between 2 and four years for a company to get a product into the market. So it's still a buy rating from me but nothing is 100% certain for us. Hopefully in the meantime we keep getting new customers before DSM or Bi-Health come good.

[winner31] 27/10/2024 12:28

Informer can you expand on this please “ an impressive visual presentation in support of the significant direct sales growth showing in excess of 20 different products from different customers of PreMix predominantly from Europe, the middle and Far East.”

[gix er] 27/10/2024 09:12

Luke Heeney on sales looks like a good move. Knows the product and knows the industry. The fact that he is still Head of Product @ Biotiful Gut Health could suggest he is on a commission for ff sales???

[huntergls] 27/10/2024 08:41

Yes I was one of the 6 there. Thought there was some really good discussions had. The new ON product is all PXS not DSM so that's good. Also Luke Heeney was there and it seems he has joined the sales team. Great to chat and have a few drinks with them all after.

[winner31] 27/10/2024 08:18

I don’t understand how AM would improve my shareholding , it seems to me they auction shares quarterly! How is that improving liquidity! Not for me I’m afraid .
it does seem that SL would need a majority holding to make it happen !

[gix er] 27/10/2024 08:07

redprince, without very much knowledge of Asset Match I cannot comment on it either way. Good or bad.
I would be gobsmacked if this was the first time that SL has suggested AM to IF so I am pretty sure IF knows the benefits/drawbacks of the platform but yet we are still on AIM with no formal news from the company.

Talk of going private is just talk with nothing to suggest that this is the plan so as you say "I take that with a good measure of salt"

IF has outlined what his long term hopes are for the company.

"he hoped that both DSM and By-Health would eventually wish to purchase the equity of PXS and hoped that any bidding war would only serve to get the best deal for shareholders."

In an ideal world I agree but the possibilities are there.

[redprince] 27/10/2024 07:31

Gixer - as i stated earlier i am opposed to moving from Aim for several reasons one being the lack of liquidity and transparency of pricing.Also the benefit would be to whom exactly?This smacks of softening shareholders up for taking us private which imho is not in most pi's interests.
I have no doubt that SL has the ability if holders agreed to pull that off via Asset Match but who does that benefit?
The saving of £50k pa in AIM costs is a red herring imo.

Aimho.

[gix er] 27/10/2024 07:14

winner, As it was SL that made the suggestion we could assume that he would like Provexis to move from AIM to Asset Match.

I know very little about the platform so have no idea if it would be good or bad for PXS/shareholders.
One downside to shareholders (IMO) would be the lack of being able to trade whenever they want.

[winner31] 26/10/2024 22:19

So if we get taken private ,what’s in it for shareholders?

[bareknee] 26/10/2024 20:30

I'd already thought we were more likely to be taken private than taken over by ByHealth ( or DSM ) so I'm not surprised Lucas effectively hinted at that.

It'd be a shame if we exited AIM, but I can see the attraction to both Ford and the larger shareholders.

Appreciate the info, thanks Informer.

[gix er] 26/10/2024 18:16

Thanks Informer,
Never had much doubt about the hours IF must put in to the company but nice that its confirmed.
Any large "whip round" could be seen as an indication that that either By-Health or DSM are ready to order large amounts of fruitflow II SD so shareholder preference would get my vote (not that it would go to one).
Who wouldn't want a bidding war :)

[winner31] 26/10/2024 16:43

Many thanks informer , some interesting good and not so good points there .
i think taking the company private would not end well for us long term holders ,hopefully maybe SL just wanted to put that scenario to give IF a kick up the backside ,I would have to see how that would benefit me before voting for that ,if that’s how it’s done , or maybe SL would have to get a controlling stake ! I’m not sure how that would work .

A bidding war between Dsm and by-health would be my favoured path forward

[redprince] 26/10/2024 15:37

Informer thank you for taking the time to both attend and to feed back here.This is much appreciated.
Confirmation of funding concerns at least.
Not sure what to make of SL's thoughts on delisting from Aim though?If we went down the Asset Match route I am unsure how liquid our holdings would be and also how a valuation of any holding would be arrived at?
Wrt the chat about IF's hours of work...I take that with a good measure of salt as he only speaks to selective holders and on £200k pa he is overly rewarded for doing so.
Anyway thanks again for your effort and generosity of spirit in sharing.

[informer] 26/10/2024 13:13

Gents - there were in fact 6 members in attendance at yesterdays AGM including Mr Lucas ( those it was suggested with a combined holding of approx 20% share equity)

Following the formal business Mr Chairman invited questions with as usual a reminder that no information could be provided which could be construed as price sensitive.

In answer to most questions members were reminded to refer to the recent Report and Accounts where the majority of information could be found.

IF re-confirmed that the relationship between us and DSM and By-Health was exceptionally strong and at top level and proceeded to give an impressive visual presentation in support of the significant direct sales growth showing in excess of 20 different products from different customers of PreMix predominantly from Europe, the middle and Far East.

Ford was questioned as to his time commitment and his aims and ambitions for shareholders - the Chairman offered his support to the CEO confirming that he was putting in way in excess of the average daily shift - members had reported speaking to him often very late into the evening. Contrary to the views of the few IF dissenters on this chat Mr Lucas was outspoken in his belief that Ford had in fact a very poor incentive deal - the CEO responded that he was totally committed to the end game where he hoped that both DSM and By-Health would eventually wish to purchase the equity of PXS and hoped that any bidding war would only serve to get the best deal for shareholders.

IF also confirmed the royalties agreement over the next four years reduces annually thus improving the "Margin" It was difficult to glean any further specific information in this respect as each is covered by individual Confidentiality Agreements.

In respect of the SAMR approval there is an explanation within the Result of AGM RNS with a link to an article under Notes for Editors via nutraingredients-asia.com

IF suggested reference be made once again to the Outlook statement within Report and Accounts and in respect of future funding for the inevitable re-manufacture of PreMix stock various options were being considered - whilst current figures would support approval by Commercial lenders the projected double digit interest rates were not very inviting. Asking for a 'whip round' from selected shareholders could be a more likely preference.

Finally Stuart made a case that the AIM listing offered very little to the company its shareholders and specifically himself and that the annual cost of approx £50k is unwarranted. IF in response suggested this was a discussion be continued between ourselves - that being said the 6 members duly retired to the pub followed by a hearty lunch which as I recall went on until way after sunset. I have however no recollection of there being any further discussion in this respect - any views in support of SL would surely be communicated back to him.

Don't shoot the messenger ........

[bareknee] 25/10/2024 11:30

RP

I think the most we can reasonably expect in detail on the margin on sales to ByHealth when/if SAMR gives us approval would be something like "Inital sales to ByHealth are likely to be at a lower margin than lower volume sales to non-legacy ( non-DSM) customers but will still be cashflow positive".

A statement saying "The board expect our anticipated sales to ByHealth to make the company cashflow positive in the first/second/full year of FY nn/nn+1" would be the real game changer though.

I'm not holding my breath on anything being communicated in that kind of way though. If Ford's that upfront about it then it'll be a very pleasant surprise.

Gixer - Ta

[gix er] 25/10/2024 11:11

Correct BB, B-H is outside of any agreement with DSM

[redprince] 25/10/2024 10:13

BB - agree with most of that except this - they must surely explain to us about the principle behind the margin agreement ie without having to give %'s away which i appreciate they wont ever do?

Surely as investors we are entitled to understand the implication of a sliding scale of margin if applicable?
Either that or provide forecasts going forward - dont see how Ford can be taken seriously if he does not provide some of the above within the near future.

[bareknee] 25/10/2024 10:07

RP - The chances of us being told anything about margins on any FF we sell to ByHealth are incredibly low. We might be able to infer ballpark figures once the numbers start to feed through into the accounts though.

If I remember rightly ( ie I havn't checked back ), and Gixer will hopefully correct me if I'm wrong, we won't have to pay DSM a royalty on any sales to ByHealth, which would help.

On pump and dump and SAMR. I think so many fingers have been burnt on PXS over the years that a large pump and dump is unlikely. Mind you, if it happens, I'll happily sell into it.

Having said that, you never really know if it was a pump and dump until after the event.

[redprince] 25/10/2024 09:03

BB - i am genuinely very keen to know what the terms of our royalty agreement are with By-Health - DSM deal showed me at least that the big players tend to negotiate a rate that is less preferable to us in the early years as they try to recoup initial set up/ r&d costs on their side before we get an improved margin.

I am certain that By-Health will have negotiated something similar which is why i am
managing my own expectations here!!!

Really hope we are not the victims of another p&d when a SAMR approval goes through?!?

[redprince] 25/10/2024 07:33

BB - gixer i have no idea if he works for FCA as i dont know him personally.

What i do know is that he is well informed and what he says is completely true.Tara 7,Technical Analysis,SpiritFinder and ChildsPlay were all part of a team of at least 4 characters who made a lot of money from the p&d.Tara7 was a well known player on here - i think he was known as Buckingham Bill in the share world.

Have to say he nailed old wobbly lip who has been unable in 15 years to admit he (like the rest of us) fell for the hype at the time.Makes me giggle when he constantly accuses others of being unable to admit they fell for it - his 15 year post count gives him away.

Wonder if more than 6 holders will show up for AGM today?

Hope someone calls IF out on the ongoing ambiguity of the accounts and asks him about the impact on royalty % wrt By-Health recouping their investment in the early years of product releases.

[gix er] 25/10/2024 06:37

I agree BB,

If I have learned anything over the years on the boards its don't believe everything you read.
The fact that said poster has been a member of LSE chat since 2009 but no posts show till June 2023 makes me a bit suspicious.

[bareknee] 24/10/2024 22:36

RedPrince

I'm in broad agreement with your post 2796, but I'm an old cynic so don't automatically believe everything people type on Bulletin Boards.

While I have no real reason, apart from being an old cynic, to not believe him when he says he's a former FCA investigator, I have my doubts on that.

[redprince] 24/10/2024 09:31

Siggy - unless you get SL to support you or you can raise enough significant holders to join you i doubt anything will change.

Shareholder apathy alone has allowed this to become a director lifestyle company - fact that Ford lived in Oz for many years and we did not know says an awful awful lot.

Interesting chat on red channel regarding the old p&d with some fascinating data provided by an FCA investigator.

I note the Don on spouting drivel and being in complete denial that there was ever an orchestrated p&d in Provexis - with old Captain Mainwareing aka wobbly lip also in denial.Denying something that actually happened when the evidence clearly supported it
just makes you look a total fool.

[sigma3333] 23/10/2024 15:19

gixer
keep up the excellent work, we all appreciate it.
redprince
the shareholders are getting impatient, but I will give it until we know the result of SAMR application. He should then leave on a high or be booted out. Either way we change at the top
siggy