Provexis Share Discussion Threads

[redprince] 09/6/2024 10:24

siggy - i dont know how long you have been following this company but i have been here the best part of 15 years.There has been a catalogue of dropped balls since Unilever and CC were looking at it with at least one of those aforementioned walking due to being declined exclusivity - that came from Steve Morrison ex CSO.
It has not got any better since with zero globals launching anything but the same cut and paste every year - it is always jam tomorrow.
I do not beleive our fortunes will suddenly change either even upon a launch.By-Health
know our poistion and will drive a hard bargain - see my last post.
As for IF disclosing what is certain to be a confidential agreement - not a chance.
If the company do not allow for forecasts at this point then i agree he should go but dont expect the shareholders (with possible exception of SL) to do anything about it because they wont.
Our accounts are always opaque and near impossible to understand in a meaningful way - i am a qualified accountant|
This is a lifestyle co for IF at present and is likely to remain so for the foreseeable.With what i have invested here i would be delighted to be wrong as my holding is in the tens of millions of shares.

[sigma3333] 09/6/2024 08:07

reddy
if we get blue cap for a mew health category that no one has a product for, then this is HAS to be the catalyst for a rerate. If we don’t see this then Ford has to go, simple. He has been able to hide behond the confidentiality of the DSM agreement, but not any more. nuff said Ciggy

[redprince] 08/6/2024 05:26

BB - yes i agree.The accounts have always been a difficult read eg our own product sales of FF+ were imo deliberatley obscured with "marketing support" making it nigh on impossible to see what the actual contribution was.
I suspect the Chinese will try to negotiate a deal where they can recoup a large proportion of their investment before paying a meaningful margin to us.My point is that we are unlikely to see a sustained re rating for several years.So why on earth should Ford be earning £160k a year?In no other line of work would he be rewarded like this for running a loss making company that has delivered zero to its shareholders.

Pxs is a lifestyle co for IF and noone else.End of story.
He sat in Oz for years (and refused to answer questions on that) and only speaks to cheerleader holders - that is not his job.

Pxs is a classic AIM jam tomorrow story - every year the same thing as last year - i been to enough AGM's to know how it works and amazingly every year the pi's who attend drink it in because in part it is what they want to believe.
The By-Health association is the latest jam tomorrow - by the time they have recouped their 7 figure investment or at least a substantial part of it through any profit share you are looking at years from now.
By that time we will have endured further dilution by way of more raises.

Again the holders are to blame entirely for this.
Only good thing is we now have a material holder who can exert some positive influence on these behaviours.

[bareknee] 07/6/2024 16:59

Redprince

Re "Sustained re-rating".

I think it depends if Ford gives any meaningful guidance on what it should do to our P&L and how long that might take. If he sticks to his fairly vague caveated phrases about multiples or significant multiples without any hard facts, then you're probably right.

Sooner or later though, he'll presumably utter the magic words profit or positive operational cashflow and put some numbers on it. I live in hope anyway.

[redprince] 07/6/2024 10:51

I do not believe there will be a sustained rerating of our share price following a planned launch by B-H.Why?

Well when you consider we were told they would launch before end of 2017 it says a lot.Also this co is much more a lifestyle co for IF than it is about rewarding shareholders - who have seen zero reward in nearly 15 years.
Also consider the reality of further fund raising and look at the co's history of being a serial disappointer/non achiever.

DSM could noot even get behind MM and drop their non exclusivity clause for the UK market despite their being zero interest from elsewhere and a co in MM who were ready to fully promote a shot format product.

Simply put we have allowed successive years of serial abysmal performance to be rewarded with non deserving pay and thoroughly undemanding share options.

There are a few day dreamers on the red channel but they have only shown themselves to be naiveley foolish and in one case it is more a case of an ego that refuses to admit they have been wrong for years.

[redprince] 30/5/2024 12:24

I would hesitate from making that assumption - surely they received the material upon submission around 7 months ago?

I still think that another fund raise is on the cards - hopefully not though.

[winner31] 30/5/2024 12:04

They don’t make it that clear ,but it does sound like the new function has been approved maybe waiting for the related products to be approved, just guessing really .

[bareknee] 30/5/2024 11:58

Winner

Yea, I saw that and wasn't totally sure what it meant, but assumed it was saying that the regulator had received the material from ByHealth.

Not being a Chinese speaker I'm relying on Google translate being 100% accurate though !

[winner31] 30/5/2024 11:46

Posted by Gixer ,this maybe the reason for the activity today ,appears they have new function approval from SAMR..

[winner31] 16/4/2024 12:27

Is that what they call a W formation , I have no idea!

[redprince] 28/3/2024 11:10

Bareknee - agreed on all points.Personally my gut view is that we are likely to need funds one way or another regarding funding the By-Health raw ingredients stock up prior to launch.Good to see that shelf life is not an issue and that DSM see value in taking paper from us as opposed to cash!

[bareknee] 28/3/2024 09:56

It gets us over a hump RedPrince.

If, putting aside stock issues, the business can become cash generative, then it's a trick we can repeat as sales hopefully grow, but it's a bit early to say we're at that point yet. I'd hoped we'd be much closer to break even pre ByHealth buying stock than we actually seem to be, but I suspect we're still loss making and the Annual Report in Sept will still have the "... while we remain loss-making ..." kind of line in it.

However, today's news is good news because it removes one, well probably two, uncertainties, one on funding and the other on shelf life.

[redprince] 28/3/2024 09:17

Not clear if todays rns means funding issues have been entirely resolved?So far the market seems content with the placing anyway.

[winner31] 28/2/2024 17:25

Over 6 months since submission to Samr . Can we hope to hear something soon !!

[gix er] 21/2/2024 07:30

The registration process (Blue Cap)is for an unknown number of products but these product registration applications should have been accepted by the CFE/SAMR at the same time as the new health function application.

How far down the road we are is any ones guess :(

[winner31] 20/2/2024 10:12

Registration process . 1/Data evaluation, data gap analysis, and literature search for the formula
2/Writing testing proposals, sending samples to certified labs
3/Translation and notarization of certifying documents
4/Dossier preparation and submission
5/Tracking the registration status and communication with SAMR Surely if stage 4 /was in August 23 we must be at 5/ by now .!!

[redprince] 03/2/2024 07:45

IF is competent in the day to day but he is imo deliberately opaque about a number of things - the way the royalties have been hidden including our own FF - nothing about the accounts makes easy reading if you want to try and actually understand the fundamentals.I am an acountant and acounts are meant to inform the reader as to the true financial position of an entity.

There was imo a deliberate obscuring of the true contribution FF+ by not disclosing the marketing support from DSM separately - i believe this was done to flatter the actual contribution from FF+.

Another reason why its really impossible to gain a true understanding of any growth has been purchases of stock and timing of marketing support which have a massive distortion on any given period.

Frankly i gave up trying to understand ours long ago.

As for hiding things - well he hid himself in Australia for literally years didn't he.

[gix er] 02/2/2024 07:00

BB,
Confidentiality clauses and agreements. But I do think IF hides behind this a little too much.

[bareknee] 01/2/2024 19:58

Gixer

If it was paid annually then I'm pretty sure it would be accrued for in the accounts and show as a liability, which he could have easily said.

I quite like Ford, there are far worse Chief Execs out there, but he does tend to paint a slightly rosy picture in the main text of the Reports while, at the same time, letting the text in the Going Concern section cover the "still loss making" part of the equation !

I feel for him a bit, he must be continually spinning plates to keep the show on the road, but then I remember he's getting well paid for doing so and my sympathy dies down a bit !

However, his way of ( not really ) communicating does make me wary of putting in any significant cash in here.

I'm just thinking out loud though !

[gix er] 01/2/2024 19:00

BB,
There is no reason not to say how the royalty was reported (IMO) as we would never figure out how much we are giving DSM anyway.
On the other hand, if we pay it annually then it wouldn't have been reported in the interim results and he might not want to make that info available to individuals looking for clarification.

[bareknee] 01/2/2024 17:25

180k a year for a business which keeps losing money is plainly not great, but who can blame him for keep taking the cash ? In his position, I'd probably do the same.

I do sometimes thinks he puts things into the Reports / RNSs knowing they are likely to be picked up on by PIs as being positive but aren't really that big a deal.

Case in point the diminishing, over 4 years, royalties we're due to pay DSM. I emailed him asking if he could confirm my assumption that be in "Selling and Distribution Costs" and didn't even get a reply saying "Sorry, can't say".

Obviously that could be interpreted in a few ways, such as no, it's in "Cost Of Goods", "Can't say without telling everyone formally via an RNS". The cynic in me has the favourite reason as being "You're right, it's in Selling and Distribution costs" which would mean the absolute royalty recorded in the accounts was diddly squat and, all things being equal ( which they probably won't be if/when sales to ByHealth kick in), that diddly squat amount will drop slowly to zero over the next 3 years or so.

Cynically Yours

Bernie

[redprince] 27/1/2024 12:04

Good point nestof rampers re IF's ludicrously cheap and undemanding share options - we pay yet again.Its why i asked for a show of strength years ago - sadly the pi's could not be bothered.

We are all paying for it and have been for years.

[winner31] 10/1/2024 16:40

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[nestoframpers] 08/1/2024 18:06

Sells 5 mn buys 2.3 mn.