Provexis Share Discussion Threads

[gix er] 14/6/2024 16:20

One thing is for sure and that is IF will never reveal the price customers are paying per Kilo so we will never know if B-H pay less (or more) than any other customer.
Forecast or no forecast.

[redprince] 14/6/2024 10:49

Gixer whilst i hope you are right my doubts remain until i can see proof to the contrary.
That proof will be a forecast with the data provided by IF.If he stalls on that then his credibility is shot at that point.
The constant jam tomorow over 14-15 years and the unjustifiable remuneration have made him look an opportunist and a chancer.

[gix er] 13/6/2024 12:25

"Are we in a sufficiently strong negotiating position to be in the driving seat?"

Well they cant get Fruitflow from anywhere else.

End of the day you might be right but I think it will be a fair price for both parties.

[redprince] 13/6/2024 08:43

gixer - a reasonable point however my gut tells me otherwise.Are we in a sufficiently strong negotiating position to be in the driving seat?
At the very least By-Health will have negotiated for a profit share that in the early days is heavily skewed toward them and no doubt wll benefit us more as volumes rise.

What we know and more imprtantly the Chinese know is that we are heavily dependant on them at this point.
What we also know is that Pxs has never made a cent of profit and has been a woeful investment for 15 years so it is with this reality that i am very cynical about a sudden material upswing in our fortunes.I wish!

Proof the pudding is on IF's willingness to provide a forecast once the Chinese launch.
I am betting he won't.

[redprince] 13/6/2024 08:42

gixer - a reasonable point however my gut tells me otherwise.Are we in a sufficiently strong negotiating position to be in the driving seat?
At the very least By-Health will have negotiated for a profit share that in the early days is heavily skewed toward them and no doubt wll benefit us more as volumes rise.

What we know and more imprtantly the Chinese know is that we are heavily dependant on them at this point.
What we also know is that Pxs has never made a cent of profit and has been a woeful investment for 15 years so it is with this reality that i am very cynical about a sudden material upswing in our fortunes.I wish!

[gix er] 13/6/2024 07:52

redprince, another thing to consider. If PXS were to repay "a significant proportion of their investment" then I think we could have insisted on being named on any IP that has come out and to my knowledge none of B-H's patents include Provexis.

[bareknee] 10/6/2024 18:06

Gixer / Winner

Fair point on the royalty, I just assumed ByHealth would be treated as an existing DSM customer.

[gix er] 10/6/2024 16:11

To be fair Pxs will have had little involvement in the process but I get what you are saying.
If they want other companies to follow in By-Healths footsteps you would think SAMR would try and make the regulatory process a bit quicker.

[winner31] 10/6/2024 14:45

This is Pxs we’re talking about RP , 🐌

[redprince] 10/6/2024 14:08

Thanks winner - i was confused as i remembered reading that we were still tied to DSM albeit at ever more favourable margins but we were going to supply BY-Health direct.

Clearly that was sth IF managed to negotiate well on the face of it.I still want clarity that By-Health aren't recouping their r&d cost upfront.
I simply dont take things at face value here anymore - when they announced that By-Health would release products by end of 2017 it just did not sit right with me - i felt it sounded too good to be true.

Btw they submittted to SAMR August 23rd 2023.Cant be much longer surely?

[winner31] 10/6/2024 14:05

By default from 1 January 2023 the agreement: (i) permits DSM to continue to sell Fruitflow to its existing customers, on the basis that a royalty on Fruitflow sales, fixed at favourable market conditions, will remain payable to the Company; and (ii) permits the Company to sell Fruitflow as an ingredient directly to third parties, outside the existing profit sharing arrangements.



The Agreement for Fruitflow announced today between the Company and By-Health falls under (ii) above, with the Company set to sell Fruitflow as an ingredient directly to By-Health from 1 January 2023; 100% of the Company's sales of Fruitflow to By-Health will accrue directly to the Company, and the Company will retain all of the resulting profits.

[redprince] 10/6/2024 13:37

Yes i thought By-Health was a direct Pxs customer - DSM are our supplier who sit outside the profit split?

[gix er] 10/6/2024 11:49

Difficult to say what the deal with B-H would be redprince.
As you know they (B-H) were originally going to launch a product many years ago before they decided to go for Blue Cap and then a new health claim with related Blue Cap(s).
Is it our problem that they decided to go to all this extra work due to the regulations in China???
At a guess I would say that there would be a bit of a discount on the normal price but if they buy in bulk I would assume they would get a discount anyway.
Probably never find out.

BB, didn't we get told B-H was outside the royalty agreement.

[bareknee] 10/6/2024 10:57

RedPrince

My thinking is ...

No forecast = Loss making and/or negative cashflow.

As I've said a few times in the past, when the section in the accounts relating to Going Concern no longer talks about us being loss making, then we're in a v different place and it's really only then that I expect some kind of forecast from our NOMAD / House Broker with info given to them by Ford.

Oh, and yes, DSM will be taking a royalty from any FF sales to ByHealth

[redprince] 10/6/2024 10:35

BB - i am not particularly worried about BY-Health trying to buy us on the cheap or otherwise as i doubt they are interested.I am thinking about what share of the spoils we may get - yes low margin for sure but i still think it is likely to be like the DSM deal where they get to recoup costs first?

Well if i am wrong there is no reason why IF should not provde a forecast - if he is not willing to do so then the shareholders should demand one.After 15 years it is not a big ask!

[bareknee] 10/6/2024 10:17

Redprince

I think you're being a tad pessimistic.

I fully expect our gross margin on the FF we sell to ByHealth to be relatively low ( and if my estimate of what the GM is for other sales is in the right ballpark it's not amazing to start with ) but it should still make some sort of decent contribution.

Although we could be cynical and say it'd give them the chance to buy us up cheaply, I doubt v much they're interested in us in the short to medium term, so it's not really in ByHealth's interest to have a supplier struggling.

[redprince] 10/6/2024 08:06

gixer/BB - i would be interested in your thoughts on the likelihood that By-Health will get to recoup a significant proportion of their investment before we get a full share of profits?

I definitely feel that once By-Health launch that pxs provide some forecast data at long last.At that stage we should be in receipt of a forecast to help ascertain where we can expect this to go.

[gix er] 10/6/2024 08:00

winner, it was reported here after the AGM that IF was insisting on payment upfront for former DSM customers, hopefully he has managed a similar deal with B-H. fingers crossed anyway.
Makes you wonder how much stock Optimum nutrition (our first global company) took with the launch happening around early May. Okay the product is initially being rolled out throughout Europe but if popular who knows. Timing wise it could have been the main reason that more stock was purchased from DSM at the end of March.

[sigma3333] 09/6/2024 19:09

win
if we get bluecap I hope IF calls an EGM
ciggy

[winner31] 09/6/2024 15:38

Ciggy of course I noticed but for £300 k to come out of the cash at this stage would have been more damaging to profit/ loss bottom line , it was only a small dilution as RP has said I would expect something substantially larger to supply By Health if they get approval for ff. RP he has 10% at the moment , I’m not sure what the % directors hold to push that through, I know there are some big holders PI s like yourself but what would it take to get them onboard , perhaps a complete inability to make a profit !!

[redprince] 09/6/2024 15:20

winner - you read my mind re the potential for SL trying a reverse t/o.It is certainly not in our interests to entertain a t/o at this point.I like you would be concerned if his take increased much beyond where it is now tbh.

[sigma3333] 09/6/2024 15:16

winny
did you not notice the recent 45 million dilution for the dsm FF stock ?

ciggy

[winner31] 09/6/2024 14:23

RP as you say SL could have some influence over the bod on certain things , I’ve a feeling he might have put a spanner in the works on the new dilution proposed by the bod , that’s maybe why we have not seen one (up till now anyway) , also I wouldn’t want him to have a larger stake as he has presided over quite a few delisting on AIM ,through his company Asset Match .

[redprince] 09/6/2024 13:18

siggy - you will note that the "excessive" stock options are set at undemanding in fact i would say derisorily low strike price.

When i first invested there were circa 800 million shares in issue - now its 2 billion near enough.
Only on AIM!
The only person who has gained materially since the demerger with SIS has been IF.His salary then was around half or less than half what it is today.What have shareholders gained in that period?
Zip,Just more promises of jam TTNY.

[sigma3333] 09/6/2024 11:50

reddy
IF made big promises re multiples. He didn’t give an update in trading hours in December. FF not available for long periods at key retailers, he’s kept Sirco award quiet, Oriri still has nothing to sell, DSM selling then buying. Giser has done for the share price than all the BoD put together

In meantime excessive stock options

So what is going on.

Time for strategic review I think

ciggy