Photonstar Led Share Discussion Threads

[midmarsh30] 16/1/2014 10:23

I agree with you! I think a buyout by a complementary business would be best for the company and shareholders. In its last trading statement the company said it should be EBITDA break-even in H2, so if they are on target they would still be loss making after depreciation and interest. However, as Chris says, we really need some sort of update from the company for the share price to arrest the share decline.

[yump] 16/1/2014 09:40

It may be that if there are companies out there who view the market as needing consolidation, or are looking for another product range, PSL may be an attractive target. When you've got a company that is increasing revenue, but has high costs and is very volume dependent, then the rationalisation that follows a merge or takeover makes pretty good sense. Although you obviously can't rationalise manufacturing if the two companies are making very different products; but most other functions can be combined.

The old conglomerates used to do that.

In fact, if the BOD reach a conclusion that the business will struggle for some years without big increases in sales, then actively looking for a buyer becomes quite a good strategy, providing the original investors are happy with that approach. Plus of course the original investors weren't responsible for the spike in share price, so although it looks bad on a chart, they are probably still well in profit.

[chrisdgb] 16/1/2014 09:13

Would be nice for the Directors to start helping their shares by some positive announcements......

[envirovision] 15/1/2014 16:15

.......or a tax adviser !
---------------------------
Directors have quite an interest here, price 60% lower than last years placing at a premium, does not look like any of the original investors have sold out either.

[yump] 11/1/2014 18:00

Did you work for them and then get fired ?

[midmarsh30] 10/1/2014 20:19

Which loser was it that had held on to 130,500 shares to sell today at an all time low of 3.875p. Was it you Chris, or perhaps it was Chyump!?

[yump] 10/1/2014 07:42

The price could have dropped because nobody wants to buy them at the moment of course.

Problem they have had is that they've got a high cost base relative to revenue. There are plenty of companies that reliably get a profit out of what is probably going to be around 10mln turnover. They just need more volume or to cut costs - not by a huge amount either.

At interims they mentioned they've reduced some of the cost base, while at the same time revenues in the second half are expected to show acceleration.

The other problem they've had is that folk got over-excited leading to the share price spike. That's not the companies fault.

The earlier risk is always that you never know whether a loss maker will gather continuing hype and support, or whether it will fall down as people start looking at the actual profit figures.

Chart pattern is always the same. Over-excitement and then depression. The key point is whether there is a growing business or not. Some just stagnate, some still grow. So there is often second bite at the cherry, if the cherry didn't poison you in the first place.

PS
I haven't actually looked back on the thread, but I bet that when PSL was posting significant losses at lower revenue levels, but the share price was spiking, many folk would have not wanted to discuss the high cost base and the revenue required to break into profit. A 'story' can only carry a share so far.

[gwr7] 09/1/2014 20:17

Looks like another example of insiders knowing and acting on the placing price before everyone else.

[envirovision] 08/1/2014 14:02

Perhaps they can tap you for cash then when cash flow gets so tight its hard for them to continue to draw their salaries chrisdgb, not an expert but no sight of any income left for profit is there?

[chrisdgb] 08/1/2014 13:12

Massively oversold, the Dialight trading update is a complete irrelevance to this stock.....the Board need to come out fighting, by the way I am a long term supporter not a ramper...........

[dolores123] 02/1/2014 19:43

Photonstar LED named in London Stock Exchange list of 1000 companies to inspire Britain

[yump] 31/12/2013 13:05

So is that all you do then ?
Post on one other share that you presumably hold and this one which you don't.

Hopefully you do actually invest in more than one share.

[midmarsh30] 31/12/2013 12:34

Chris - from your incessant ramping, it sounds like you put some money in at 12p and you are showing a huge loss. At least you have taken on board the need for fundraising (and therefore further dilution - I don't have to tell you what that will do to the share price).

[chrisdgb] 31/12/2013 10:32

I still think this could be one for 2014, driven by the housing market and possibly a decent acquisition combined with fund raising..??

[yump] 23/12/2013 12:24

Difficult to know if its company specific. Quite a few small stocks are getting the share price dropped pre-Christmas.

At least doing your own investments just keeps the fees limited to dealing.

[beeezzz] 23/12/2013 12:04

Seasons greetings....Yump looks like the market is not liking the companies outlook, even if directors are buying, obviously if they know something that is share price sensitive it would have to be relayed to the markets, not sure why they are buying.

Getting slightly pessimistic on this one, as midmarsh pointed out last year the company have to convince their auditors they are going concern for the next 12 months, otherwise it's curtains for another struggling AIM stock that gets no investment from major institutions and we wonder why these small companies never succeed, city risk averse useless, that's why pension & investments funds do so badly mega returns, nice fat bonuses though.

[yump] 16/12/2013 22:24

PS

On second thoughts, don't bother. For someone who isn't invested, you've spent more time than most of the investors posting by the look of it.

Why don't you find some people to 'advise' in the real world. I think that kind of philanthropy would be more effective.

Unless you're just hung up on how companies like PSL manage to raise funds on the market at all and that's the reason for all the posts, but its not a puzzle. They've been doing it for donkey's years. The idea is not to pay up at float, if there's no decent revenue track record. Although that doesn't work with the really hyped stocks, 'cloud' 'big data' and all.

btw well done for not investing at float.

[yump] 16/12/2013 22:16

So, presumably with your background you can describe the possible problems with the Kickstarter tax issues for us ?

That would be real helpful.

It would also help me if you get off your chest a nice long list of all the things PSL have done wrong and what you would have advised as a professional. I don't know whether your constructive suggestions extend to all areas of their business decisions ?

Just be interesting to know if there's an conflict in your assessment between an investment gone wrong that you have no control over and basic decisions on which there is an obvious right and wrong choice.

I'm assuming you don't include marketing, sales, technology or product development.

[midmarsh30] 16/12/2013 19:50

As a chartered accountant and a CFO over many years, one thing I required of my staff was "get it right first time". I have referred in previous posts that PSL keep getting it wrong, which is why I continue to post.

A CFO's general tax knowledge should be sufficient either to make a decision on a project or know when to call in professional advice. If a company can't can't make informed decisions itself or afford professional advice it takes on new projects at its peril.

[yump] 16/12/2013 15:52

The tax is complicated and my guess would be that it would cost more in fees to a tax accountant than could be raised. Such is the way of our entrepreneurially challenged business environment.

It costs a minimum of £500 just to insure against a cost of accountants fees of thousands if you get a random revenue investigation. They don't go for large corporates, as they'd just get tied up for years by the corporate accountants and cost the taxpayer a big chunk of money.

Be interesting to know how much of our GDP from SME's is syphoned off into fees of one sort or another.

The most difficult type of business to get off the ground is a product-based one. Thank goodness there are still a few real entrepreneurs around who like banging their heads against walls, instead of just buying up property or becoming finanancial 'consultants'.

[midmarsh30] 15/12/2013 19:35

Cliff - Seems neither of us has much time for this company.

The words you quote "...... Due to confusion surrounding taxes, which has come to light", tell it all. The company (or the relevant Director) did not do the tax research or enquiry they should have done before embarking on this project, nor presumably take the professional advice which a prudent executive would, and as a result have had to make this pathetic announcement.

I reluctantly say 'announcement' because there is no reference to Kickstarter on the PSL website!

As you point out, Cliff, to waste all this time and energy raising just £14k, is appalling.

Dolores: where will you buy your chroma white now that Kickstarter is closed?

[cliffpeat] 15/12/2013 14:15

The KickStarter project was pulled a couple of days before it expired - only £14k of the £25k target pledged. Misguided from the start IMO.

The hxxp://www.halcyon-lighting.co.uk/ site says: "Closing the Kickstarter campaign - but not the project - PhotonStar will be closing its fundraising project on KickStarter as of today. We have taken the decision to close the campaign due to confusion surrounding taxes, which have come to light..."

I cut my losses but still follow PSL hoping that they will show signs of commercial success - but pathetic excuses do not go with tough minded management in my opinion.

On the Halcyon site I clicked on to the basket to see details of the Halcyon Home Kit - delivery estimated for January (subject to tax confusion??), no prices and the options of "An E27 fitting type" or "B22 fitting type". Hello - is this aimed at consumers or electricians? No pictures (or English words) to explain.

I realise that this company has other products, IP and clever people - it's just that my gut feel is that they haven't got the commercial leadership they need and possibly, deserve.

So this is my last post and if I am ignoring a golden goose or prejudicing my circadian rhythm, so be it!

Good luck to others who, maybe, know more than I do - I really hope they can make a success of it.

[yump] 13/12/2013 18:07

Yes. They've got until around middle of Jan by my reckoning, then they'll be in closed period.

[chrisdgb] 13/12/2013 16:08

More director share purchases...bodes well..

[chrisdgb] 13/12/2013 11:20

Seeing the strength in ARM Holdings today....I wonder how the relationship with Photonstar is going..........??