Phoenix Share Discussion Threads

[scottishfield] 31/3/2014 09:35

cheers PHILO

[philo124] 31/3/2014 09:31

Sorry, 865p.

[scottishfield] 31/3/2014 09:25

PHILO124 ??

''800p target down from 800p''

[philo124] 31/3/2014 08:23

Canaccord 800p target down from 800p; forecast divi of 6.75%.

[this_is_me] 31/3/2014 08:12

Bounce continuing. I am very pleased with my profit from those I bought on Friday!

[hvs] 31/3/2014 08:06

Happy days .

Well done to those that bought

[hvs] 31/3/2014 07:18

How did the Telegraphg get the story well ahead and very wolly. Who told them ?

And whu is there NO CLARITY ? Our very CIVIL SERVANTS at work ?

[philo124] 30/3/2014 17:11

That's Allied Crowbar for you, allegedly.

[scburbs] 30/3/2014 14:19

As part of PHNX's business case is to release capital they are unlikely to be a key offender on exit charges, particularly given in recent years they have been focussed on paying down debt.

"INDUSTRY experts expect Abbey Life and Allied Dunbar to be at the heart of a new investigation by the City regulator into "rip-off" pensions that are managed by firms closed to new business.

...

Abbey, now owned by Deustche Bank, and Allied, part of Swiss insurer Zurich, routinely impose high exit fines on pension savers of up to 25%. Advisers have cited a case where Allied Dunbar demanded a 64% exit penalty on a personal pension."

hxxp://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/business/money/pensions/article1393518.ece?CMP=OTH-gnws-standard-2014_03_29

[drdre] 30/3/2014 11:39

Same kind of piece in The Times, calling for heads to roll @ the FCA.

I don't disagree that a review is needed of the sector - the exit fees mentioned in The Times from Abbey Life and Allied Dunbar are beyond shocking and reprehensible.

However, some companies will be impacted less than others and I would hope that the impact at PHNX is minimal. It actually presents an opportunity for Insurers to actually pick up more business at the expense of others. Like how it should be ;)

As an aside, the recent pension reforms make it doubly galling for those who took out annuities recently for less than 4% yield. If the government want to act - allow transfer of annuities and transfer out of annuities, within reason. I'm no expert but flexibility and transparency has to be the directive going forward, to bring about a competitive marketplace.

[jonwig] 30/3/2014 11:12

Telegraph:


The City's watchdog has been accused of making an "extraordinary blunder" by the chairman of the Treasury Committee for its release of market sensitive information on the insurance industry.

Around £2.4bn was wiped off the value of insurers on Friday after Clive Adamson, the director of supervision at the Financial Conduct Authority, told the Telegraph the regulator was planning an inquiry into 30 million pensions and savings policies sold from the 1970s to 2000.

Investors in insurers took frighht with Legal & General issuing a stock exchange announement urging for clarification on the plans in light of the "disorderly market".

Six hours after the markets opened on Friday the FCA tried to reassure investors and said that it was not planning to individually review the policies nor did it intend to look at removing exit fees from those policies providing they are compliant.

Andrew Tyrie said of the turn of events: "On the face of it, this is an extraordinary blunder."

"It is crucial that we have a full and transparent explanation about how such an apparently serious mistake came to be made by our financial services watchdog - the body appointed by Parliament to enforce high standards of conduct", Mr Tyrie said.

The FCA said in a statement that it would hire an external lawfirm to launch a leak inquiry into its handling of the matter.

However, Mr Tyrie said that "more than that is needed" and the Treasury Committee would likely call in the person in charge of the inquiry for vetting before they started.

"The FCA has a statutory duty to investigate cases of regulatory failure but it cannot be permitted to investigate itself," he added.

Mr Tyrie continued:"We will want assurances that he or she can and will conduct the work independently of the regulator and with the necessary resources."




Thirteen comments at the end of the article. Score: FCA 13 : Insurers 0.

[jonwig] 30/3/2014 08:45

Ursus (post 894) - sorry, what I wrote was ambiguous. I meant to suggest they had sought legal advice following the leak, ie. whether to issue a clarification or just keep quiet.

[philo124] 29/3/2014 19:22

650p.
Where the FCA (and SFQ) In 2008? How many went to prison. I watched Buffet say
on TV that as regards the culprits that there whole wealth should be taken away inc their spouses, and then put in prison. The US re-mortgage securities market was 1000 times the actual value of the original mortgages (source Economist Annual 2014 Edition). Another thing exported from US.

[zcaprd7] 29/3/2014 13:48

I love this board (and like the phoenix management). Sold out a while ago when we went through the 3 year high. Bit too soon, but had bought at the 3 year low. Divis and that special share issue in top as well. Tempted to get back in, but have no idea what price is a bargain?

[ursus] 29/3/2014 11:36

jonwig - post 891. you report Peston as saying that the FCA took legal advice on their leak to the DT. If so, I find the whole thing amazing and scandalous. Politicians leak. Regulators should not leak - ever. Legal advice or not, this should cost some at the FCA their jobs.

[jim digriz] 29/3/2014 10:25

It certainly has been an odd couple of weeks as a PHNX shareholder. Good work anyone who sold very early on Friday, when there was a good sales opportunity first thing, or who bought on the dip - I saw the low start to the day but didn't check to work out why until it was already well under £6. You would have thought I would have paid more attention as this is my largest shareholding but maybe the recent movement during the budget made a sudden movement seem less odd than it should be?

I'm loving the projected rate of cash generation - PHNX may generate it's entire market cap in cash in a few years.

I'm not sure I think they should necessarily acquire any other policies however. Only if they can get them at a good price. My main long term worry is not so much the FCA investigation but the institutional imperative to be seen to do deals etc. Management is doing their core job very well indeed and, at this share price, if the board can find a better return on capital than buying back shares or paying out dividends so we can invest elsewhere they will be doing very well. Managing other firms closed funds for a fee rather than outlaying capital or shares on buying the actual funds would be interesting but I'll be impressed if they acquire any policies in a way which actually generates any value for shareholders. I'm just a bit worried they are keeping the cash generated from the sale of Ignis to buy some policies which are less undervalued than those they have already.

Back to sleep for another few years hopefully...

[jonwig] 29/3/2014 09:03

Discussion on BBC R4 'Today' earlier about the FCA fiasco.

Peston said the industry was very angry that it had been leaked in incomplete form to one paper (DT) as a front-page story written in lurid terms, hence the false market, which the FCA had to respond to in the afternoon. The full announcement is to be made on Monday morning. (7:00 I'd think.)

He also said the FCA had taken legal advice on the 'leaking' of the story.

The FCA head had a short interview in which he appeared very mild.

The head of the ABI said he was more concerned at the longer-term implications of a lack of trust between industry and regulator: the new post-annuities retirement savings market would require complete transparency on both sides.
He didn't say so explicitly, but the sub-text was "get off our backs".

There should be a transcript available soon on BBC iPlayer.

[philo124] 29/3/2014 07:58

Thanks for all postings.

[hooley] 28/3/2014 22:14

Fasten your seatbelts we're in for a bumpy ride! Phnx may have nothing to fear, but it's a 'guilt by association' scenario for months on end. More shares bought than sold today as it turned out - a shorter's dream? I'm a nervous buyer for the dividend and expect a long haul throughout 2014 for the share price

[bizana] 28/3/2014 20:59

Today was a novel experience for me. This morning I watched real time PHNX on Google Finance. I bought on the way down, near bottom. and on the way up. I have never before done this sort of thing.
I'm a long-term investor and I am down £4.8k today (excluding £1.8k recouped on the above madcap activity). I guess I am saying in a roundabout way that I am quite sanguine about PHNX and will hold todays purchases.
I fear I don't have a lot to offer this BB. I started buying PHNX four years ago. It's one of a few investments I can only describe as intuitive.
Thank you to the more informed people who are posting on this BB. Always interesting.
GL to all.

[drdre] 28/3/2014 20:37

Thanks for sharing that jonwig.

Whether I was sage or foolish to pick up more shares today under £6 time will tell. However, markets are volatile enough without the sort of occurrence that happened today. I doubt very much anything will come of it though.

[scburbs] 28/3/2014 18:07

Very detailed and strong statement from PHNX.

The statement from AV. makes their closed book look rather small and could be the right sort of size for acquisition by PHNX (at an appropriate discount obviously).

"Aviva estimates that the FCA's work into long-standing life insurance customers [i.e. closed book] could apply to approximately GBP200 million of Aviva's value in force, less than 2% of Aviva's Group embedded value. Of this GBP200 million value in-force, Aviva believes that its treatment of customers has been fair and appropriate, and therefore any impact on the Group's profits should be minimal, if at all."

[jonwig] 28/3/2014 17:47

DrDre - an interesting point - so how was the Telegraph article released late Thursday?
Unofficial? A loose cannon? "Let's see what happens?"

The Bank of England wouldn't dream of this sort of leakage, and I hope the FCA learns to manage its agenda better than this.