Phoenix Share Discussion Threads

[jonwig] 13/11/2013 18:32

Discussions with Swiss Re terminated.

The share price was about 650p when they were announced. I doubt it will drop that far, as the market has risen in the meantime, but it surely won't be rising tomorrow!

[jonwig] 30/10/2013 14:30

stdy ... no, I doubt it. This is about the perpetual problem of getting people to enrol in pensions while they're working ('personal', stakeholder' whatever) - ie. new products. And when they do, what should be charged.

A quite different situation could arise if run-off life policy/pension holders were to get further compensation, but I don't myself see any avenues. Isn't the mis-selling route closed now?

[wllmherk] 28/10/2013 11:11

any reason for the fall today ?

[wllmherk] 26/10/2013 08:35

thanks jonwig

wllm

[jonwig] 26/10/2013 06:26

wilmherk - it's their biggest chunk of debt, currently £1.34bn after paying some off from £1.85bn at 31/12/12, and revising its terms.

Apart from its size, it has dividend payment limits which are now raised - to maybe about 55p total for the year and a single bullet debt repayment in 2019.

So life is a lot more comfortable but gearing still high, hence I suppose the lowish valuation still.

Robsy - I sympathise with any policy holders, yes!

On the Swiss Re merger, assuming Swiss re Life (Admin Re) is absorbed debt-free, the merged gearing will be a lot lower (down by half, about). This isn't something I've looked at.

EDIT: Swiss Re itself has very low debt, but I can't find a breakdown of the separate items.

[wllmherk] 25/10/2013 16:42

I like companies that reduce debt. Just good housekeeping really.

Jonwig, what is the Impala facility ?

wllm

[robsy2] 25/10/2013 16:11

Yes ,it all looks good. As Jonwig says , we are in a virtuous circle now as they continue to meet expectations , confidence grows, the markets are benevolent which helps, debt gets paid down , divis are sustainable and very high , too high?Can we can look forward to investor appetite closing the discount, or will they re-set things by paying us even more. IF Swiss Re were to feed assets in and get some upside on the shares in PHNX , that might be interesting as well.
You are certainly a lot better off holding PHNX shares than you are holding one of their policies!
R2

[wllmherk] 25/10/2013 13:53

bought in here earlier this year and to date it's my star performer.

wllm

[scburbs] 25/10/2013 08:38

Jonwig,

You know what they are like (i.e. like to hit rather than beat target). I reckon they will go for £750m this year (or maybe a small beat). This should set them up for a fast start next year and we may see an upgrade to future cashflow targets or the £3.5bn 2011-2016 target.

All looks good and, of course, all this cashflow reduces the gearing and reduces any reasons for PHNX to trade on a large discount. When you look at how yields have compressed elsewhere (e.g. RSL) then the PHNX yield still looks highly attractive.

[jonwig] 25/10/2013 07:47

IMS for Q3:



Cash generation to date means they could comfortably exceed their full year target ceiling. I think they're still constrained on dividend payments by the Impala facility, so a big increase in the final from 26.7p might be too much to ask for!

Swiss Re discussions ongoing.

[fenners66] 11/10/2013 12:43

A sudden jump any known reason?

[wllmherk] 06/10/2013 17:13

my divi arrived in my account Friday

wllm

[dennisten] 06/10/2013 14:47

Div pay day 3rd - plus three working days - should be in your bank on Wed the 9th.

[wllmherk] 03/10/2013 19:01

thanks Jon

[jonwig] 03/10/2013 18:31

wilm - because the money comes from "foreign parts", TD always delay by a day or two, or three. (I've known 10 days delay on foreign shares, though not this one.)

[wllmherk] 03/10/2013 18:20

I m with halifax share dealing but, don't seem to have received my dividend today, anyone else had the same problem ?

wllm

[this_is_me] 17/9/2013 11:31

It has been going up for over a year and is still yielding 7%

[speedsgh] 17/9/2013 09:30

Must surely be something going on in the background? Swiss Re news imminent?

[jonwig] 16/9/2013 15:42

Citywire on PHNX:

[hyden] 11/9/2013 17:39

I agree Aleman. Here's hoping. :-)

[aleman] 11/9/2013 15:32

Seems unusually strong today considering the market is down a touch. I'm wondering if there might be some progress in the Swiss Re deal behind the scenes.

[speedsgh] 04/9/2013 12:44

Gone XD today for 26.70p interim payment on 3/10

[davebowler] 03/9/2013 14:47

Seems to be a lot of turnover in 36RW -the old Pearl Bonds.