Phoenix Share Discussion Threads

[hyden] 02/9/2013 20:45

Wouldn't be surprised if we see an announcement re: the Admin Re deal sometime this month - perhaps the share price is anticipating this?

[petethehippy] 02/9/2013 19:02

What happened today?

[royconchie] 26/8/2013 21:29

Thanks Jonwig! Very useful reply!

[jonwig] 26/8/2013 18:50

royconchie - the latest prospectus I have (dated 2013) has, on p213:

An individual Shareholder who is resident for
tax purposes in the UK and who receives a dividend from
the Company on the New Ordinary Shares will generally
be entitled to a tax credit equal to one-ninth of
the amount of the dividend received, which is equivalent
to ten per cent. of the aggregate of the dividend
received and the tax credit (the ''gross dividend''),
and will be subject to income tax on the gross dividend.
An individual UK resident Shareholder who is subject to
income tax at a rate or rates not exceeding the
basic rate will be liable to tax on the gross dividend
at the rate of ten per cent., so that the tax credit will
satisfy the income tax liability of such a Shareholder in full.

So your dividends are treated just the same as - say - Tesco dividends, ie. immaterial whether inside or outside an ISA if you're a basic rate taxpayer.

The only thing to note is when you do a self-assessment tax return: PHNX dividends are entered on the foreign pages.

PS. Cayman Is, not Bermuda.

Full evidence here. The changes date from April 2009:

[royconchie] 26/8/2013 16:09

Am I right in thinking that the Phoenix dividend income from shares not held in an ISA is normal UK taxable as there is no Double Taxation Agreement with Bermuda?

[jonwig] 25/8/2013 15:20

IC comment this week. Summary is:

Shares in Phoenix are 15 per cent up on our buy tip (659p, 9 Jun 2011), but still trade on a 25 per cent discount to embedded value. The risk is that the shares could take a knock if merger talks fail, but a prospective yield of 7.3 per cent offers support and we remain buyers.

Deutsche Bank forecasts 55.6p dividend for FY.

[aleman] 23/8/2013 11:36

20% is very good over a long period. Take out my lucky multibaggers from early and I'd probably be around that. I don't even expect to do that in future. Maybe 5% dividends to reinvest, 3% for inflation and 2% real growth in dividends, and 5% for trading between yield stocks and 15% should be a reasonable target for the long run. That's doubling your dividend income every 5 years and could make most people wealthy with patience. My income has nearly trebled since 2009 because the recession accelerated the process as it threw up so many trading opportunities between dividend stocks as people panicked. CGT and inability to get volume in small caps is seriously getting in my way now, though.

GC - you seem to be looking at a lot of the same sort of stuff as me, although I'm not too keen on property where I have come a cropper there a few times. I'm also not keen on energy and miners but I have come close to adding BP a few times recently and have looked at NG. (again). I keep checking quite a few others you mention.

You should get some steady income and capital growth out of that lot but I would imagine you will be lucky to get up to 20% per annum in the long run with so many, although the greater spread of risk may help you sleep. I tend to run a more volatile portfolio of smaller companies but that brings more hiccups that have to be made up by taking further risks. It has worked for me but takes a bit more nerve. At the moment. I'm over spread around too many small caps because I can't get volume in the ones I want. (This means I'm sometimes reluctant to talk about what I'm buying these days.) I expect to have to concentrate on mid caps and above in future, which will probably slow me down a bit.

It helps that it doesn't bother me if my portfolio drops 20% or 30% in a year so long as I have the dividends to reinvest which will continue to lift my income from year to year. This is my primary target. Lift the dividends and you lift your standard of living. The capital values will follow on in time if you wait long enough but I really don't care that much so long as reinvested dividends keep my income going up.

Whilst the recession was painful, I did a lot of switching around the bottom to pick up some hefty yielders which gave me a boost. THat gave me a lot more money as dividends to reinvest, which was the main target. The recovery in capital values since was secondary, but satisfying nonetheless, although that drags you down in the long run. Most investors look for quick gains and don't see that rising prices actually drag long term performance down as it lowers your compounding rate. Lower prices generally means higher yields and more trading opportunities which gives higher compounding; falling prices are good for yield hunters' performance if they're investing for the long term. You'd be surprised how many people do not understand that. Buffett would say recessions are good. It's like a sale in a shop. Why pay more than you need to to lift your income? The less you pay the faster you get rich.

[this_is_me] 23/8/2013 07:53

Well done Aleman; I have only managed 20% compound since 2003 ( when I started to keep records), that is with CGT paid and dividends used to live on.

[garycook] 23/8/2013 06:18

For Aleman,Now holding 19 Stocks,around half recommended by Aleman made 16,000GBP since November on 116,000GBP.It is high yielding except for FGP and LCG who both stopped there dividend Portfolio is. AV.CHG,CGL,CWC,EMG,FCRE,FGP,GSK,HSD,IAP,LCG,NG.PHNX,POG,RSA,SREI,STOB,UKCM and VOD Thanks for your sound advice.Looking to add AML,AZN,BP.RDSB,RSL and SSE,on any dips in price or Stock Market correction,any comments welcome or recommendions must must be yielding over 5%

[wllmherk] 22/8/2013 23:37

I wished I had the courage to give up the day job and trade full time, but, too much of a risk for me, also, I don't have your skill Aleman in picking the winners. My hope is to reach retirement age and with reinvested dividends and my occupational pension have a comfortable retirement, either that or win the lotto. 30% per annum is an incredible achievement. There are many highly paid fund managers who will get no where near that figure.

wllm

[aleman] 22/8/2013 18:15

Thanks, chaps. I'm a full-time private investor. I like to think I know what I'm doing but can't be certain! I probably had a bit of luck with some multibaggers early on that flatters me. I'm probably really just amongst a group of decent investors that have been around long enough to get the hang of it. I started investing in 2003 since when I've managed just under 30% per annum compounded. (Just over that if you roughly adjust for taking out living costs. It could have been more if I hadn't passed on QXL!) Gave up work in 2005 (chemist in textile industry) on the assumption that I would get something part-time but never bothered in the end. You'd be surprised how many mistakes I make but I quickly acknowledge and exit. I'm finding CGT and getting decent volume in smallcaps is becoming a drag on performance so I'd settle for 10% per annum in future although I'm well ahead of that this year. If I had to give one tip, it would be read Warren Buffett.

[wllmherk] 22/8/2013 17:35

speedsgh,

Aleman knows his stuff. I follow his posts with interest and he rarely makes bad calls on shares. I don't know his background, but, I'm sure he could make a living as a Trader.

I bought in here a couple of months back and this is my best performing stock this year by some distance. What a cracking dividend too which appears well covered by earnings. I thought the interim results were excellent as well. long term hold for me.

wllm

[speedsgh] 22/8/2013 09:04

Following a 27% increase in the 2012 final dividend (paid May 2013), they have now increased the interim dividend has by 27% as well which is very welcome and will help to support the price as this level.

Any views on the likely level of the 2013 final dividend? Will it be held or is there another increase on the cards?

I see the Swiss Re tie up is still bubbling away in the background too.

PS - Many thanks to Aleman who I think first alerted me to PHNX a few months back.

[hydrus] 22/8/2013 08:51

Superb results I thought with management talking in relatively modest tones but if you look at the numbers they seem pretty fantastic to me.

[this_is_me] 22/8/2013 08:26

I got more first thing when they dived for some reason.

[jonwig] 22/8/2013 08:01

Apart from results (look fine, as already said) departure of Hugh Osmond might be a positive if he feels he can take his hands off his investment now.

But, if he has big ideas elsewhere, he may be ready to sell down some of his stake. If so, I'd imagine it would be placed off-market rather than just sold.

[scburbs] 22/8/2013 07:48

Phoenix Life surplus up to £406m from £138m at 31 March, so plenty of capacity for cashflow target.

[this_is_me] 22/8/2013 07:40

Results look good.

[ganthorpe] 19/8/2013 10:08

It's over a month since the Swiss Re news , so presumably we will get an update with the results announcement this week.
Too much to expect something solid?
Still hopes of a nice dividend increase?
GAN

[scburbs] 08/8/2013 21:45

Excellent progress here. Results due in 2 weeks.

[hyden] 08/8/2013 20:43

Great finish. :-)

[this_is_me] 08/8/2013 18:10

Happy days! We have reached an all time high!

[zcaprd7] 08/8/2013 13:28

Nuts. New high. Good luck to those remaining...

[speedsgh] 08/8/2013 12:59

enjoying the ride here at present. good timing for once on the recent building of my holding. bought for the income + prospective income growth but i don't mind accumulating a paper profit in the meantime. more to come hopefully.

[zcaprd7] 05/8/2013 15:52

I shall possibly regret this, but sold out out. Over a 40 percent gain plus dividends...