Open Orphan Share Discussion Threads

[pogue] 26/11/2020 21:17

Nickthe saint
welcome to the board I have read your post, very interesting, however I don't think the Hippocratic oath can really apply to challenge studies, unless the medical authorities want to be hypocrites, as phase 1 trials all round the world inject vaccines to see what side effects they cause, sounds like the same idea as challenge studies both could cause serious damage to a subject.

'Phase I trials aim to find the best dose of a new drug with the fewest side effects. The drug will be tested in a small group of 15 to 30 patients. Doctors start by giving very low doses of the drug to a few patients. Higher doses are given to other patients until side effects become too severe or the desired effect is seen. The drug may help patients, but Phase I trials are to test a drug’s safety. If a drug is found to be safe enough, it can be tested in a phase II clinical trial'

[owenski] 26/11/2020 20:53

occillation's getting tighter, buyers and sellers drying up, probably needs some news for the next drive, give it a week give or take and see what happens.


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[nickthe saint] 26/11/2020 20:37

It does seem that a few of the recent posts have started to feed a bit of confusion re where we are at in respect of the development of solutions.

Just for info and in a bid to clarify some things:-

For normal Flu Season vaccinations Pharma Companies start to grow vaccines in chickens eggs where they are cultivated in or around Feb and March based on what has happened in the Southern Hemisphere Winter.

These are developed in such a way that they are likely to prevent against up to 2 or 3 of the more popular strains of Flu that the Northern Hemisphere for the upcoming Winter Season will experience. It takes 4 or 5 months to develop them and they are then distributed to GPs Surgeries for vulnerable, elderly and immuno-suppressed patients to help prevent fatalities. They don't trial these on patients prior to dishing them out.

When it comes to pneumococcal vaccine this is different. Pneumococcal is not a virus but a disease caused by bacterial infection. Vaccines do not need to be "grown" to prevent this as the vaccine "knows" what it is preventing ie a specific bacterial infection not a changing multi format virus a la Influenza. The good news is that the Pneumococcal vaccine lasts for 10 years for patients rather than just for one season against 2 or 3 types of the seasonal flu virus. Care needs to be taken when issuing the Pneumo vaccine as if you inject a patient a second time within the 10 years of the first injecting they can become very ill. Probably not fatal but very ill and certainly something one would want to avoid.

Pneumo vaccines again aren't needed to be trialled on patients first - they have done all that.

Despite the fact that an infection of pneumonia rather than flu is much more likely to have a fatal outcome with patients of similar immuno-compromised conditions or age factors (can be kids under 5 as well as the over 65s), the fact that pneumococcal vaccine prevents pneumonia, whereas flu cannot prevent all kinds of flu in any season, and also the fact that one last for 10 years and the other lasts only for a season, the Government (Labour Tory and Coalition) and Department of Health have never prioritised Pneumo vaccines over Flu Vaccines. Crazy and inefficient and not good at saving lives but thats how Govt often works.

The only real justification for this s that Flu spreads really well and is far more prevalent than Pneumo.

One of the areas that Hvivo is working in (away from any Covid stuff) is on a Flu Virus that will last for 10 years and would be universal against all strains of Flu.

That is where BiondVax just failed in Stage 3. This is a big prize for pharma and society and if a vaccine is eventually developed it may well have been through a Challenge type process. Of course it might not.

The ethical dilemma with Challenge Studies is that the Hippocratic Oath states "do no harm" and this is totally contrary to injecting someone (even in a challenge study) with a live virus, knowing that they will become ill. That is where the ethics discussion comes in. Personally, I think that challenge studies are a necessary and valuable tool in vaccine development.

10,000 children were born with life changing and debilitating malformations many years ago through the use of a drug that had not been properly tested for the use in pregnant women. That drug was thalidomide, which was and still is used appropriately in a number of medical treatments.

A challenge study could have prevented this in such large numbers but would have guaranteed that some women did deliver babies that were affected with devastating disabilities - this is of course the ethical dilemma of challenge studies.

Sorry if the above is a bit dry and boring as a read but hopefully it helps inform those who are unfamiliar with how drugs are developed etc. For those who already knew the above, I'm not trying to teach granny to suck eggs.

Just thought it would help and stop some of the conversations going down needless rabbit holes.

Respect to all.

NTS

[molatovkid] 26/11/2020 19:47

250k trade reported after hours on my screen

[lhoskins] 26/11/2020 19:36

The chart is textbook. Wearables deal, 3rd facility announcement and government trial approval due any day now. RNS tomorrow or Monday on any one would be the perfect trigger for this share price to rocket .

[m5] 26/11/2020 17:57

pogue26 Nov '20 - 17:46 - 8719 of 8720

Well with an uptrend like we have I would be shocked if it broke down,nothing certain, but if I was a betting man, and I am,:-) I would say 90% nailed on, as long as we don't have any bad news, and I can't see that happening, quite the opposite. Watch this space.

[troutisout] 26/11/2020 17:50

This from 16 days ago, good to see the pennant formation has continued to form, looks good!
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[pogue] 26/11/2020 17:46

Yup even I could see that flag playing out last few days, one of the reasons I have been buying, could break downwards off course but why would it do that?

[troutisout] 26/11/2020 17:44

Not long now....

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[gregb] 26/11/2020 17:18

Love this one, Beep Beep...https://mobile.twitter.com/Eskers1/status/1331908811129548801

[uapatel] 26/11/2020 17:05

Nice graph M5. Maybe even get a FOMO Friday.

[m5] 26/11/2020 16:58

This is how I see it aswell give or take. Not advice, might not happen, nothing is 100%, just my opinion so DYOR.

[m5] 26/11/2020 14:57

Must say it is strange, we get a very good feature in shares magazine today and hardly a flutter from the share price Funny old game.

[klosters65] 26/11/2020 12:34

Let us see if the bid price is lowered to 23/23.5p in the afternoon session. That has been the tactics in recent days. Then at the close , they bring it up to more or less the price it started out at the beginning of the day. I am convinced the share is being accumulated by the big boys.

[molatovkid] 26/11/2020 12:16

A bit of annoying selling for a company going places.....

[pierre oreilly] 26/11/2020 11:37

1g, ref the phase 1 in a qurantine facililty. I don't think the clinic will be at quarantine status during the phase 1. They are just using it for the beds, doctors, equipment etc. When infective agents are used in a challenge study is when it will go to quarantine status with restricted entry, strict sanitation, masks and gowns etc etc. Imv.

[pogue] 26/11/2020 11:29

1gw
that fits better just googled Phase 1 trail, see below, so it looks like they are just injecting the vaccine into healthy bodies until someone feels ill, no exposure to virus.
'Phase I trials aim to find the best dose of a new drug with the fewest side effects. The drug will be tested in a small group of 15 to 30 patients. Doctors start by giving very low doses of the drug to a few patients. Higher doses are given to other patients until side effects become too severe or the desired effect is seen. The drug may help patients, but Phase I trials are to test a drug’s safety. If a drug is found to be safe enough, it can be tested in a phase II clinical trial.'

[1gw] 26/11/2020 11:24

Pogue - it is the vaccine itself which is based on an attenuated version of the virus

"CodaVax-COVID is a single-dose, intranasal, live-attenuated vaccine against COVID-19, generated using Codagenix’s proprietary deoptimization technology."

[pierre oreilly] 26/11/2020 11:21

P, I'd be surprised if anything could have a cha stu before undergoing the basic safety tests of phase 1. I'd even think it unlikely before a successful stage 2. But that's just my supposition, be great if someone in the bizz could comment.

[pogue] 26/11/2020 11:17

Pierre
he definitely said a phase one trail for Codagenix using the attenuated virus, which is the challenge study model virus I presume as that is what it is an attenuated version of the real thing, and its being done in the clinic all points to a challenge study. Challenge studies can be used anytime don't need to be phase 3, good way to find out if it works and save money is to do it at Phase 1.

[lako42] 26/11/2020 11:06

You don't need to wait until then to ask. I'm sure they would be receptive through the relevant investor email. [e-mail]