Manx Financial Share Discussion Threads

[elsa7878] 10/4/2024 11:05

Question is do you buy this one on a diluted basis (once the loan notes convert) at 6x with no yield or Barclays on 7x and a 4.5% yield.

[tiswas] 09/4/2024 19:37

There was an Edison note last year after the results.

Are we expecting one this year?

[castleford tiger] 09/4/2024 18:42

22p is tempting me

[nakedmolerat] 09/4/2024 14:19

someone is clearing out at 21p today, bonkers when you consider what good value this is

[smithie6] 09/4/2024 08:36

There are some good directors around. The exec Chairman at Touchstar, Ian Martin, has done a good job of improving the company & without taking high pay or big amounts of options. And the CEO & Chairman at MFX have both been there/here for many years. And recently the deal to buy PA Ltd has been a good success.
(J.Mellon is sitting on a big profit from convertible loans, I don't know why his loans are convertible while the loans from other dirs that exist are not convertible & hence not sitting on a big profit ?).

..well, I guess that AIM especially only has itself to blame. Complete lack of regulation has allowed too many dodgy directors to operate. And so many tiny companies from other countries or continents have listed in London & then turned out to be frauds (eg. Globo) & British frauds as well. Although people have the option to invest in funds to reduce their risk but for AIM companies there are very few funds investing I think. And reducing number of funds investing in listed companies with cap. values <£50m, did Chelverton sell it's small company holdings, & Downing ?

Big companies have had their problems as well, I recall the accounting scandal at Tesco, & directors making tens of millions via options at Persimmon builder, & then leaving ! And at various LSE companies there have been shareholder revolts against directors' benefits/options, but perhaps only at a % of the total number of listed companies.

Sadly the LSE & AIM markets are owned by the brokers, who are only interested in their own pockets & short term gains. (Well, many UK investors are the same; although at MFX there are many PIs, dirs. & >3% holders who have held the shares for some years & have been looking at the medium/long term).

[clocktower] 08/4/2024 10:19

Smithie6 yes his it is Joe Grimmond and if only all directors were like him, there would he a lot more investors that trusted AIM companies and the market in general.

I think Mellon associated shares have an issue as well.

This seems to be the forgotten share, as there seems to be so few trades when there is no news, as it settles down to a pattern and slips as frustration steps in, then the bounce.

How long before the next one?

[castleford tiger] 05/4/2024 18:33

not a trade today

[spangle93] 04/4/2024 22:44

Spruiking of Time by a tip organisation, following the securing of funding - included here for comparison of earning and projected target wwith MFX


In his improved estimates, analyst Andrew Renton at Cavendish Capital Markets, published after the Q3 Update on 26th March, his new figures suggest that the year to end May will see TIME total revenue up from £27.6m to £31.5m, lifting pre-tax profits to £6.0m (£4.4m), taking earnings up to 4.9p (3.7p) per share.

For the coming year Renton suggests that revenues will rise to £33.1m, with profits up to £6.7m, and boosting earnings to 5.4p per share.

Understandably Renton has a high Price Objective for the group’s shares – 71p, which compares very favourably with last night’s closing price of just 39p

[smithie6] 04/4/2024 19:55

..I guess this share has a history of being volatile in the last 24 or so months....
...the small total value & small % of the company in the hands of small PI holders of <£5k, who might be buying & selling some MFX shares, combined with their other buys/sells...producing an illiquid scenario..... doesn't need that much volume to move it up, or to move it down.

[castleford tiger] 04/4/2024 16:08

21/23
not loved at the moment again

these were 30p early on results day

tiger

[smithie6] 04/4/2024 09:50

...CRU...& 'Joe the chairman' :-)
...seems a top honest bloke. & a very good boss, & foreward planner. There are some about.

For forward planning MFX dirs. have done well with PA Ltd, although the jury is still out on all the other acquisitions over the years (& the ability of MFX bod, or not !, to get them to grow !) which arguably have not been significant for MFX, most do not even get mentioned in the AR for 2023 !

'Joe the chairman' :-)
at CRU, is his name Joe Grimmond ?, agree with you on that....'good bloke'
.....but CRU is not for me. Making anything physical in the UK, without patent protection or some other protection of the margin, that's a very tough/risky sector for investing in imo.

[clocktower] 04/4/2024 09:26

Thank you Smithie6, I appreciate your response, and I agree with you about voicing your opinion about salaries and practices of the BOD even when holding shares.

The bulk of them seem to milk it for them and their selected pals.

One of the few companies that have not done so, is CRU over many years, and Joe the Chairman seems to be one of the few exceptions.

[smithie6] 04/4/2024 09:17

Clocktower
...my sentiment, on divis or on MFX ?

On divis, in theory the money is best kept inside MFX, to compound year after year. That has always been my opinion. But, it can always be reviewed/debated, & whether the % of PAT paid out is 10%, 15%, 20% etc.

For MFX, I often/sometimes post criticisms on a share where I hold shares. I criticised the MFX dirs reporting profit & growth as if MFX owned all of PA Ltd when MFX in fact owns 50.1% not 100%. That is an old story, not new, not a change of sentiment.

[smithie6] 04/4/2024 09:09

... definitely an item to discuss/review.

If the bod increase their pay, as they have, by ~25% ....with an increase in £ that is more than the £ increase in the payment to shareholders (see my earlier post) then perhaps the bod should at least justify that.....

Or also increase the payout to shareholders.

[clocktower] 04/4/2024 09:07

Your sentiment seems to be changing Smithie6 ?

[castleford tiger] 04/4/2024 09:06

By my calculations after last year MFX have £17/18 million cash after these results. There is an argument to increase the divis from 10% of the groups profit to 25%.

I certainly think its time it moved up from 10%

Not all the Non exc moved up so much. From memory i thought 45 last year to 54k this year for the ones i checked

[smithie6] 04/4/2024 08:53

Divi
Btw
For the dir JM, in his interests as sizeable conv. loan note holder that the divi % to shareholders is kept small, since it is money going out of the co. which reduces the conversion value/gain of his LNs.

[smithie6] 04/4/2024 08:20

...good to have some debate.

----

I think we all us PIs agree that we would like to see better presentation/communication from the company to the PI shareholders & to potential new PI investors, since this small company is not well known & there is little communication/presentation from the company (& arguably what there has been perhaps scores 0/10 or 1/10 !; we all recall the fiasco (imo) of presenting data that showed MFX PAT & growth % as if it owned all of PA Ltd when it doesn't!).

I think the co. has received the message & is interested to try to communicate more to the market.
The quick agreement recently to present/participate in a Mello event in about 10days shows that.
And well done to any shareholders involved in that (perhaps CT & davidosh).

----
PA Ltd
I don't think PA Ltd directors should sit on the MFX board.
But it is perhaps an idea.
Some MFX board members are getting old (Denham Eke is 72 etc) so at some time some replacement perhaps needs to happen.
However, the PA Ltd exec directors are getting paid in cash not in any MFX shares so they are currently not fully aligned to the interests of MFX shareholders, they are aligned to PA Ltd & growing PA Ltd so that they collect the full £5m. At present they would get paid £3.4m (2 X £1.7m) so they need to grow the PA Ltd profit some more.

Personally I'm happy with the structure of the deal to buy PA Ltd.
However.....!, it might need altering, perhaps, in the future in order to keep the PA ltd directors to keep growing PA ltd & not 'to just turn the handle' (English, brilliant language we have :-) ) once they get the average nett profit of PA Ltd up to £2.5m/year. But that can be quite easily processed, if needed, at the time, such as by buying PA Ltd in advance or agreeing a further incentive to the purchase contract. If an alteration was beneficial to PA Ltd & to MFX then I am sure that it would be considered & if needed done. But we haven't got to that point in time & there is imo no need to specify it in advance.

-----

Dividend increase.
I think I would be in favour of 20%. A doubling of the % of that PAT that is paid out as a divi.
If not, then the bod to agree to reduce bod renumeration back to £800k. ;-)
Personally I don't like the 25% increase in pay to the bod this year. If the bod think they have done especially well, then take a 1 off bonus (& subject it to vote at the AGM) & not an on going pay rise. Or explain in the accounts why 2 non execs saw their pay double. Gregory Bailey saw his pay double to ~£55k & he is based in Canada so I assume that he 'attends' bod meetings via video link. And he is a busy chap with director role in various companies (exec at at least one), how much time he has to do anything for MFX between bod meetings is a valid question imo.
Perhaps he made major contributions to get his pay doubled, who knows, no info is provided to us shareholders in the AR.

[smithie6] 03/4/2024 19:57

What do people think about the high increase in cost of the bod, +25% !?
£800k to £1m.

Too expensive?
Is it time to reduce the number of directors ?

Perhaps remove Denham Eke (ex MFX or Conister boss) (since having a vice chairman at this small company seems excessive imo; & is he there because the bod needs him or because he is a friend of JM) ?

And does it give JM too many friends (subservant friends !) on the bod (which is not healthy imo) ?

(The annual total income of Denham Eke at different companies is solely because of JM imo, because JM is a major shareholder at those companies, so it surely impossible imo for Denham Eke to go against JM's wishes & risk losing all his directors' positions & income).

John Spellman, non exec, now gets £94k, that is high for a small company.
Do people think it is too high ?

The pay of 2 non-execs has doubled in 2023.
Is that justifiable/fair ?
No justification is given in the accounts.

The increase in pay to the bod is £175, £797k in '22 to £972k in '23.
The increase in the divis to shareholders is lower at ~£130k.

[smithie6] 03/4/2024 18:02

Jim Mellon

I would agree that his score out of 10 for making money for investors is perhaps a bit mixed, but I don't know his record over last 30-40 yrs.
At MFX investors that paid ~8p for new shares in 2008-10 are sitting on a good profit. The annual % return depends on the year they bought.

While at WEB investors are sitting on a loss (JM & Denham Eke are involved, Denham Eke is on the bod).
I've just checked the website for SEED & Jim Mellon is not named as being on the bod, nor Denham Eke !, so, JM can't be blamed imo for the performance of the current bod).
At lse:BHL yes Jim Mellon is on the bod as non exec vice chairman & Denham Eke is on the bod, finance director. (DE is vice chairman at MFX & plays a major part in running J.M.'s investment company Burnbrae). It is a lithium exploration & extraction company. Well, shares in start up mining companies, everyone knows that is like spinning a coin, so JM cant be blamed imo, or credited, if BHL finds lithium, or doesn't.
So, I don't think the success or failure of lse:BHL is affected much by JM sitting on the board. And under JM's skill list I don't think you'll find any mention of mining !! He is there imo as an investor since lithium is such a hot subject for batteries for EVs & phones.

----
But worth noting that many famous entrepreneurs have had successes & failures, including:-
Luke Johnson (cake/pastry chain went bust I think while pizza chain he backed made him a fortune),
Alan Sugar, he has had winners & losers
Bob Holt ?
Etc etc.

.....most/many small companies start off because some entrepreneur puts in a notable amount of cash & then devotes their time & energy to try to help to make it a success.
Society & the stock market (& investors) need such people since
a) the Government won't do it (& wouldn't have a clue how to; & failed badly investing in the UK car companies in the 70s)

b) us PIs ain't going to do it since we don't have the time or motivation nor enough cash, nor the skills, experience & contacts.
------
I think JM has made most of his money as an investor in companies where he was not on the bod, I might be wrong, ...his record as a director, I know very little, but at MFX the investors from the various cash raises in 2008-10 at 8p are sitting on a healthy profit at 23p now but yes they had to wait until 2022-24 !!

Apparently he has an MSc from Cambridge, & has made many millions over the years, so he is probably smarter than most of us !

[smithie6] 03/4/2024 17:54

(Hedgehog
....imo is a low quality investor...from Scotland....from the msg board of NWT, who has posted here today as an attempt of a revenge post against me since I've today criticised his posts on the NWT thread. (Where he keeps posting that NWT is about to take over the world, when it has a cap. value is <£10m & it's turnover is lower than it was in past years....& the bosses over many years have been a husband & wife team, who arguably are just milking it for high pay while the co. goes no where.
NWT have started to offer a service to maintain/repair shop sliding doors. Hedgehog claims this will make the company millions in profits.
Zzzzzz.)

[castleford tiger] 03/4/2024 17:44

2008 MFX was a different company to now.

There were issues with the financial crash and failing banks.

Not sure how thats relevant to whats happening today.

Maybe you do not like Jim Mellon?

regards
tiger

[hedgehog 100] 03/4/2024 17:07

Note that MFX is down by nearly three quarters since it started trading on AIM in January 2008.

Manx Financial (MFX):-



And that current MFX chairman Jim Mellon has been on the MFX board since its floatation & earlier.

And that JM has also had 2 other recent share price disasters that I'm aware of: SEED & BHL. I.e. he's someone whose recent form doesn't look good.
And multiple SEED shareholders on b.b.s have claimed to have been misled badly.

[clocktower] 02/4/2024 13:05

Might get lucky again this under 18p for a day or two, as there is no understanding the market these days.