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MFX Manx Financial Group Plc

14.75
0.00 (0.00%)
04 Dec 2024 - Closed
Delayed by 15 minutes
Share Name Share Symbol Market Type Share ISIN Share Description
Manx Financial Group Plc LSE:MFX London Ordinary Share IM00B28ZPX83 ORD NPV
  Price Change % Change Share Price Bid Price Offer Price High Price Low Price Open Price Shares Traded Last Trade
  0.00 0.00% 14.75 14.50 15.00 14.75 14.75 14.75 349 08:00:00
Industry Sector Turnover Profit EPS - Basic PE Ratio Market Cap
Personal Credit Institutions 53.34M 6.14M 0.0527 2.80 17.19M
Manx Financial Group Plc is listed in the Personal Credit Institutions sector of the London Stock Exchange with ticker MFX. The last closing price for Manx Financial was 14.75p. Over the last year, Manx Financial shares have traded in a share price range of 13.00p to 29.50p.

Manx Financial currently has 116,541,936 shares in issue. The market capitalisation of Manx Financial is £17.19 million. Manx Financial has a price to earnings ratio (PE ratio) of 2.80.

Manx Financial Share Discussion Threads

Showing 2751 to 2774 of 3350 messages
Chat Pages: Latest  122  121  120  119  118  117  116  115  114  113  112  111  Older
DateSubjectAuthorDiscuss
28/3/2024
14:05
Stewy
...be interesting to dig in to the accounts & see what % of money left with Conister gets <1%, what is deposited for 1 year, what % for 3 years etc.
(For 1 year loans, every month 1/12 of them end & if they will get a new % rate if deposited again)

But finding the enthusiasm to do that today is difficult!

smithie6
28/3/2024
13:54
Btw
I'm disappointed with Jim Mellon.
He's a largely non-involved exec chairman, charging a lowish fee (£50-60k) & he brings a lot of financial & markets experience to the table. (In terms of predicting economic movement & stock market movement & predicting things like bond/gilt market movements in advance, he is very clued up, & experienced. And he has a big investment here so he surely keeps a close on minimising/controlling the risks/exposure that the group takes. As the biggest shareholder, with his friend's stake & options, it would be a brave (or foolish) person in the bod. who fought against JMs preferred decision, since you might be out soon afterwards !)

But

Imo, to receive numerous complaints from shareholders (including holders of 2-3% I think) about confusing reporting in the last annual accounts & the 2023 H1 accounts

To then partially repeat the same mistake again in these accounts. Is pretty stupid imo.
The front page intro sentence JM writes that the PBT =£7.0m, +35% wrt 2022.


while inside the report ...on the next page !! it says the PAT is ~£5.3 million for MFX shareholders. Up from £4.3m for 2022. =+23%, not +35% !

And who wants to see PBT on the fron page summary ?! No one imo !
Investors care about PAT, the amount for shareholders after the taxman gets his cut. And PAT is used for the important EPS calculation, not PBT.
Why JM uses PBT in his front page summary, crazy imo.

If I was a potential new investor that would put me off the shares. If I was looking at investing say £2k in 1 of 3 shares, well, if share 1 had some confusion I would just discard it & decide between shares 2 & 3.

------
JM
There is a saying 'you can lead a horse to water, but you cant force it to drink'
Or perhaps, in this case, 'sometimes the horse even refuses to be lead to the water' !

smithie6
28/3/2024
13:48
Oh, the dark arts Smithie! One wonders if they can increase the margins or if the interest rates are locked in on the loans.
stewy_18
28/3/2024
13:23
Conister & it's low nett % margin. 0.8% on loans. (£2.2m PAT on £302m of loans made in 2023, IoM & UK, which includes via PA Ltd imo)

Here is an idea for you...
....the CEO has a chunk of options, some exercise at 0p, perhaps to meet the performance targets the plan is to build up the size of the loan book, helped by making very little profit on it !!, & then, bam, increase the margin at the right time to meet the perf. reqts to meet the perf. targets to get all of the share options/RSUs at 0p exercise price.
It's one idea.

smithie6
28/3/2024
12:04
Quiet day for MFX shares
Only £500 traded so far today up to midday.

----
By 1pm, 23k shares, picked up a bit.

smithie6
28/3/2024
12:00
the AR for 2023 says

"In the UK, growth has been driven by our Structured Finance products with lending increasing by £93.1 million to £246.2 million (2022: £153.1 million). The structuring of these facilities continues to minimise the risk of default and is proving a successful mechanism for growth in this difficult environment."

I think it means that these loans have asset backing.

----
..risks of bad debts...
..well, very low bad debt % in 2023, & a lower % than in 2022.
So, that all looks good imo.

smithie6
28/3/2024
11:57
How risky are those loans, and is it fear of losses from them that is holding the share price back?
clocktower
28/3/2024
11:45
Conister IoM provides the funding to PA, BLX, PIML, BBSL etc etc...not Conister UK ltd

-----

Conister UK ltd might have started lending, since it has a licence but since it won't start it's on-line deposit taking until H2 2024 & is setting itself up imo I assume it hasn't taken any deposits yet ...
....although it could obtain funds from Conister IoM to lend out, in advance if taking deposits, if it wanted.

(Imo logical first deposits at Conister UK would be from MFX subsidiaries since they each hold some cash, & as controlled or owned subsidiaries MFX can tell them their cash needs to be deposited at Conister UK ! ;-)
....although Conister UK imo perhaps needs to provide banking services for that, & perhaps it's not at that stage yet)

smithie6
28/3/2024
11:42
Have they really already loaned out £150 million from the UK branch of Conister?
stewy_18
28/3/2024
11:33
OK CT, but why are other banks %age margin in a lot higher that Conister? I remember this being asked at the last Mello and they didn't really give a meaningful answer.
stewy_18
28/3/2024
11:23
as rates fall profits will grow quickly.
castleford tiger
28/3/2024
10:54
... hopefully not boring anyone/everyone with too much info/detail

But
....the % return from Conister is not very good imo
£2.2m PAT from lending out £302m in 2023 (UK (£246m) & IoM (£56m) ).

0.8% !!. :-(

While I understand that MFX wanted in 2023 to attract more depositors to fund the rapid growth in lending at PA Ltd & increased lending to other borrowers.....so it had to be done...the group should also think about profitability and risk, imo it is time to make a higher % return from the lending from Conister. <1% is too low imo.

If just increased it to 1.6% from 0.8% it would increase the Conister PAT by £2.2m !

I think that at listed high street bank plcs the nett % margin is ~3%, much higher than 0.8%. Hopefully I am comparing the same thing.

smithie6
28/3/2024
10:30
No trades today. Tells you something.
stewy_18
28/3/2024
09:33
I am being quoted sub 25p for 75,000 so plenty of stock around which surprises me.
tiswas
28/3/2024
08:07
Btw
Well done MFX & PA Ltd.
Impressive results.
They have been busy.

smithie6
28/3/2024
07:00
lennon

i agree but as that trade of 100k is more than all the others added up ( sells or buys) i see no reason for them to mark it lower.
unless they were flushing out some sellers.

strange but one i shall be taking advantage of.

tiger

castleford tiger
27/3/2024
23:58
Someone paid 26.6 this morning, so 100000 at 27 could have been possible at 8:33.
lennonsalive
27/3/2024
21:46
Btw
How should PA Ltd be valued, probably/surely "not" as I did it ! Je je, as a straight p/e multiple of the PAT of 100% of PA Ltd

But to also add an additional value, for the interest margin income it gives to its 'owner'.
If the loan book at 1 moment is £16m (seems far too low) then if it's lender makes 5% interest margin on funding that, = £0.8m in addition to the £2.5m pat that we know PT ltd needs to average in order to get paid the £5m.
£2.5+ £0.7m (deducting ~10% for IoM tax) = £3.2m.
If valued at a p/e of 10 then it's value = £32m. Just for 100% of PA Ltd.

But the MFX 2023 AR talks of a much bigger number than £0.7-0.8m, £4m. (PA Ltd ".... exceeded our financial expectations in the year by delivering £4.0 million to the Group in terms of interest income to Conister and recharges for Group services") (if £3.5m was interest, at 8% ?, then average funds lent = ~ £44m, which makes the £16m loan book amount at the end of Dec '23 look way too low, 1/3rd of £44m (which looks about right).

That infers that the value of PA Ltd to be inside a group that can fund the loan book of PA Ltd is notably higher.
Some of this £4m might be because MFX administers a notable % of the PA loans (ref. existing accounts, PA or MFX) , perhaps because MFX has manpower available or perhaps to reduce MFXs risk or ...
(With regulators, & loans one has to be careful to comply with the rules, which means using std processes, forms & staff trained to follow the processes)

Hmmmm, whole subject needs more research.

smithie6
27/3/2024
19:30
...I try to put together in this post some/key top level data for PA ltd

Note ~32 of the MFX AR for '23.
PA ltd
Loans to customers, at the instant of 31 Dec.
( this is for 100% of PA Ltd)

2022 = £9.8m
2023 = £16.0m

Growth = 16.0- 9.8 = £6.2m
As a %
6.2/9.8= 63%.

That is high growth.

----

Total volume of loans made.
During H1 2022 £41m (ref. H1 2023 presentation)
During H1 2023. £68m (ref. H1 2023 presentation)

Growth = £27m, 66% wrt £41m.
Note that this agrees with the data for the increase in the size of the loan book on 31st Dec 2023.

Although the size of the loan book at end of Dec. 2023 looks surprisingly small. If annual volume of loans was ~2x H1, then = ~£136m (!!) while the loan book at end of Dec 2023 was only £16m. The amount of £16m looks far too low imo.
If the averaged loan is paid off in 4 months then the loan book at one instant should be ~1/3rd of the total loans made during a year (roughly). And £16m is very different than 1/3rd of £136m.
Perhaps need to ask MFX.

----
PAT
(Ref. Into section of the MFX AR for 2023)

2022 £0.8m
2023 £2.1m

Operating profit
2022 £1.8m
2023 £2.7m

Increase of £0.9m, +50%.
'If' PA Ltd could repeat that increase in 2024 it would be an operating profit of £2.7 + £1.35m = £4.05m.

A PAT increase of 1/3 as a target seems more realistic perhaps, that would be a PAT increase for PA Ltd of £0.7m, £2.1m + £0.7m = £2.8m.
Could it be achieved or would +20% be a more achievable number ?
(+20% would give £2.1 + ~£0.4m = £2.5m)
'if' PA ltd did achieve a PAT of £2.8m in 2024 then a p/e of 10 for PA ltd would value it at £28m. Very similar to the cap. value today for all of MFX !! (Noting that MFX has an option to pay £5m to buy the remaining 49.9% of PA Ltd).
And noting that the owners of the 49.9% of PA ltd need to achieve an averaged PAT of >= £2.5m over '24, '25 & '26 if they want to get paid the full £5m.

smithie6
27/3/2024
19:25
...interesting...

Do we know the time the trade actually happened ?

You think the buy trade was mostly filled yesterday even if the fill completed today ?

smithie6
27/3/2024
18:28
100,000 buy showing at 27p a late reported buy early trade.)

MM shaking the tree ........

castleford tiger
27/3/2024
18:25
fantastic news.

A drop off in the price this afternoon puts this in the crazy cheap basket again

tiger

castleford tiger
27/3/2024
16:50
Just to let shareholders and prospective investors know that Manx Financial Group will presenting on the MelloMonday webinar, starting at 5pm on Monday 15th April 2024.

Use code MMTADVFN50 for 50% OFF.

melloteam
27/3/2024
11:00
Thanks for the pats on the back ...
....for me & CT and all posters that have contributed calculations & insight/notes.

----
And a well done from me to CT and a few other big holders who have been holding the shares for some years as strong believers, they were right.
(I had been in/out of the shares over years & was lucky to get back in in volume at an ok time/price).
----

Of course each person should do their own research, do calculations, read the accounts & past accounts, etc etc.

smithie6
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