Manganese Bronze Share Discussion Threads

[felix99] 04/8/2008 10:46

Rthak - if you have LEvel 2 you will see it is hugely illiquid. MM's quote in 250 barring one of them who is good for 1000 to sell and offering in 500.

This works to your advantage if it moves correct way but if it doesn;t be prepared to be skinned alive or grin and bear it.

[felix99] 04/8/2008 10:43

Trade doesn;t have to go through on eelctronic although it would have to go through the LSE book I think which you can go and get hold of at LSE somehow.

Due to its size it may be delayed a few days if ti does go through electronically.

I also think Morgan Stanley will just be holding this for a few days before they pass it onto the final party. They would not take this stake on themselves and I suggest it is some month end Tosca fudging to get stake off its books for the 31st July report or other.

Whether it gets passed to another Tosca fund or to a third party might be interesting bit still

[rthak] 04/8/2008 10:39

yes substantial (well substantial for me anyway) short position....

I have to say I had to do it in rather small chunks - after a call to my dealer I was told that sell volumes on this share are very low and hence difficult to sell into (i never take anything from these type of comments but just for your info..)

[macansy77] 04/8/2008 10:39

making a few inquiries on the MS holding, will post if i get anything back...

[davidosh] 04/8/2008 10:36

rthak...welcome aboard or below deck I should say. I presume of course that you mean substantial short position !!?

[the analyst] 04/8/2008 10:31

Doesn't the trade have to got through the system at some stage?

[rthak] 04/8/2008 10:31

davidosh I have looked into this company after your tip at the LNG AGM last week. I think it is very bad that Morgan Stanley have bought - in all honesty i was expecting some private equity. After this announcement I have taken a substantial position.

p.s. I took your tip on transfer from paid up to leveraged on LNG...releasing a significant amount of cash... :)

[davidosh] 04/8/2008 10:14

Morgan Stanley are not known for bidding or taking over a company and certainly not MNGS. That now supports the original theory that Tosca needed to dump and went looking for a buyer. The price will have been far lower than this level and Why did Tosca sell all the holding if they see a future in the company ? Big U turn as they were buyers just weeks ago !!

[toffeeman] 04/8/2008 09:52

so, the question is, how much did they pay? - Is there a requirement to disclose?

[macansy77] 04/8/2008 09:43

so, the mystery buyer is Morgan Stanley...

[davidosh] 01/8/2008 12:57

The analyst

You said

Are investors here the opinion that the company will need to raise some cash in the mid-term?

My thoughts too looking at the balance sheet and little headroom left and it may be sooner than mid term at current overstocking levels.

The directors are not available as they are doing the rounds in the City and meeting fund managers for three days.

Mmmmmm...

[macansy77] 01/8/2008 12:26

TA - that's my thinking too although I stress it's just a rumour and to be honest it doesn't make sense to me. I think the company will need money pretty soon based on the figures just out. I can't see the Chinese wanting a stake, they've got what they want with the JV - why take a stake in what effectively is the overvalued and soon to be loss making UK part of the business?

[the analyst] 01/8/2008 11:59

That's interesting if it is true, macansy77.

I think the rise yesterday was because people thought someone was taking a big stake in the company, so closed shorts and possibly bought in hope of a take-over approach. So, if it turns out that there has been no new stake building, then it could be that the price will drop again as they digest the way the UK sales are deteriorating.

Are investors here the opinion that the company will need to raise some cash in the mid-term?

[macansy77] 01/8/2008 11:38

been doing a little digging, speculation is that the Tosca stake has just been transferred into the name of the Fund manager, Hughes. I can't see the point of this and neither could the source - it is just rumour although it did come from one of the brokers to MNGS...

[davidosh] 01/8/2008 08:44

What we do not know is when Tosca started putting gentle message out to other funds that they were willing to sell. That could have been one reason for the fall from £4 and support at £3. It is all guesswork until news or more RNS come out. Even the company are unaware of a reason for Tosca selling

[nickcduk] 01/8/2008 06:51

I think Tosca may be focusing their energies elsewhere in terms of investments. The story could have changed because of the poor UK economic environment and hence they decided to sell out. I think a strategic buyer has picked up their stake. Possibly the Chinese? Any institution who might have been involved would have to be certifiable if they did not barter down the price to take advantage of current market malaise. If they had picked up the stake for a song the share price would have been hammered to reflect this.

[rapier686] 31/7/2008 23:50

Roughly translates as LTI are toast selling Coventry built cabs in London. But Chinese manufacture makes the world their oyster with 6000 orders. "It innoculates LTI from an otherwise potentially lethal virus in its core market."

[davidosh] 31/7/2008 23:07

Tosca have been in this for years though and bought in for the long term so strange if they have lost hope in the story...Why sell now ?

[nickcduk] 31/7/2008 22:09

An alternative view could be that Tosca have found a strategic buyer for their stake. I think that is more likely than them having tried to dispose of it in a fire sale. I doubt many institutions would have been keen to pick up shares here in the current market environment. Especially without asking for a huge discount to the current share price. Be interesting to see who did pick up the stock.

[davidosh] 31/7/2008 21:25

It has been widely reported in the newspapers that Tosca had been struggling with their investments this year (down well over 30%) and that the housebuilders they were heavily invested in were needing additional funding support. It will be interesting to see how many funds took a new stake in order to offload this large holding and what the price agreed was. It must have been a shock declaration for management to see that their loyal long term shareholder has departed on results day.

I cannot see Tosca giving up here willingly if there was chance of major upside or they were made aware of corporate activity so a forced seller and they probably exited at levels 10%-20% below market price. Buyers in this market are rare especially just before results in a small cap with a pretty bad short to mid term outlook.

Is there any means of knowing the price agreed or will that remain confidential ?

[toffeeman] 31/7/2008 14:32

so who bought them - Geely?

[domwilliams] 31/7/2008 14:06

Toscafield have dumped their 26.5% holding

[crystalclear] 31/7/2008 11:05

Well, it looks like realising their vision to make the London taxi a successful global icon is going to be a bumpy trip rather than plain sailing and the share price might dip further before the Chinese made taxis roll off the production line and global sales start to get organised and build up.

I wouldn't be at all surprised to see these drop further as the traders hammer it a little. At the moment people are still looking at this as London Taxis. I think it is only when Chinese production has started that people will really see it as Shanghai Taxis.

Christopher Ross is on the board of directors of MNGS and ATV. Both companies have had dealings with Geely. MNGS for Shanghai taxis, and Antonov for their efficient 6 speed transmission, which is a bit like a dual clutch transmission in that it can power shift, but from any gear to any other, rather than just between odd and even gears - a limitiation on dual clutch trannies.

So I think there is a possibility that the Chinese taxis will get Antonov's Chinese 6-speed. Shanghai taxis looks to have great prospects and since its been announced the share price has averaged a lot higher. But this might not be the best moment to buy, as the myopic investors and short term traders give the shares a bit of a bashing by just looking at the short term for London Taxis.

In my opinion trickle time cost average buying over the coming year might be the best way to ensure a low purchase price for investors seeking to profit from the Shanghai taxis, limousine and saloon cars.

[macansy77] 31/7/2008 10:11

oh, and also worrying is that their inventory (ie stuff they can't sell) has increased by £7m. With sales almost certain to decline significantly in the second half and further expenditure likely needed for China...

= placing very soon?