Manganese Bronze Share Discussion Threads

[welsheagle] 30/9/2007 19:54

For a company whose shares were the best performer in the FTSE all-share index last year – up 290 per cent – Manganese Bronze, the maker of black London taxis, is remarkably resistant to profit-taking. Lower production costs mean that the Chinese-made vehicles should sell for about £15,000, putting these distinctive black cabs within reach of buyers in Europe, North America and China who are put off by the £27,000 price tag of the standard TX4. After property sales, Manganese has a clean balance sheet with a £3 million pension deficit and £9 million net cash. But at 57 times 2008 earnings, the upside from China – which will not be felt until 2010 – is already priced in. Sell, says the Times.

[scburbs] 26/9/2007 08:09

You might have thought after such a solid set of results the P/E rating would come down.

And it has ....

At say £8 the P/E ratio has come down from 53 to 52 on the back of an eps increase of 2.5%!

Results a bit meaningless with this one. All hangs on the Chineses JV. I have a small short position.

[ariane] 26/9/2007 07:48

Manganese Bronze 2nd H1 EBITDA up 51 pct to 8.6 mln stg, TX4 selling well


LONDON (Thomson Financial) - London taxi maker Manganese Bronze Holdings PLC
said strong sales of its new TX4 model had helped it rack up a 51 pct rise in
second interim earnings to 8.6 mln stg.
Manganese, which is realigning its results with those of Chinese joint
venture partner Geely, said UK taxi sales were up 39 pct since the launch of the
TX4 in October.
It said overall sales volumes had increased by 27 pct to 3,153 vehicles from
2,480 at the same time last year, with higher growth since the launch of the new
model.
It said there had been continued strong cash generation from operating
activity of 12.2 mln stg against 1.1 mln beforehand and the company has net
funds of 9.1 mln against 2.6 mln previously.
The group's joint venture to sell London cabs into the Chinese market has
been finalised and all regulatory and shareholder approvals have been received,
it added.
[e-mail]
paw/jfr

[crystalclear] 17/9/2007 16:08

PE doesn't matter at all at the moment.
It is the PE ratio once Geeely are in full production that matters.
And what is full production going to be?
Geely plan a single telephone number for taxis across China with a franchise arrangement which would be stupid not to insist they use classic taxis. And there is a saloon car planned, designed by Manganese Bronze I think, based on the taxi platform, and Geely are rapidly expanding and planning to export. So just how big is this going to be? I guess nobody knows.

It is the same with Antonov that designs an automatic transmission that Geely will make. They haven't had any proper earnings for about 15 years and are worth something like £35m. The valuation is based on the idea that Geely will be making and selling cars and growing and starting to export too. First it was Japan, then the Asian tigers, and next it is India and China's turn. Geely plans to sell transmissions to other car makers too.

It is this idea of Geely production, expansion and export that is underpinning the share price of Geely's partners, Manganese Bronze and Antonov.

[toffeeman] 07/9/2007 13:35

Market says no CR

[cockneyrebel] 07/9/2007 10:28

Grossly over valued now - chart starting to roll over - time to short imo.

PE 50 - laughable!

Cummon Evil - join me here :-)

CR

[crystalclear] 30/7/2007 13:31

Maybe one day they will get ADSL into my remote location so that I can watch this instead of just posting links hoping they are okay.

Stuff about Geely.

(part 1)
(part 2)
(part 3)
(part 4)
(part 5)
(part 6)
(part 7)
(part 8)
(part 9)

[crystalclear] 30/7/2007 12:07

FAO agreeable
Is it possible that the threat of a rival taxis is posturing, in order to agre a good price on Taxis imported from China? Surely production costs there and sale prices here mean that there is a big margin, which people will fight over!

Any more info over KPM would be interesting.
Do you bite the hand that feeds you?
Why make something yourself when you can buy it cheaper elsewhere?

Since I am leveraged to Geely car production rather than just the Taxi platform, it isn't too important to me, but I'm still interested.

[crystalclear] 30/7/2007 11:59

Are KPM international?
Geely will be publicizing the London Taxi at the Beijing Olympics and are setting up a network where there will be a number to dial for Taxis in China that then distributes the taxi request to a franchised local company. The ability to remember a single number that could get you a taxi anywhere in China (if achieved) is phenominal. If the system is run by Geely, it makes sense that they would want a uniform look and feel and would start insisting on the Geely made Taxis. If you start to roll this idea out elsewhere, the potential is enormous.

Then Manganese Bronze seem to have helped Geely design a saloon car based on the same platform. So there are the sales of the saloon car to consider too. Production costs in China are low enought that China should follow Japan and the Asian Tiger economies into success in the automotive world, at the expense (possibly even death or break-up) of Ford, GM and Chrysler.

So I think somebody else selling Taxis for London is small in the global scheme of things. My interest is really leveraging the international growth of Geely via Antonov PLC, as it isn't just the Taxis that will need modern gearboxes, but all of Geely's cars. And despite the huge growth potential I mentioned for London Taxis, I think Geely's total car sales is more of interest to me than merely their Taxi sales. But that doesn't make the potential Taxi sales insignificant.

Do Geely have three production sites planned for the Taxis? One serving Hong Kong, one serving Shanghai, and one serving Beijing - as a very rough summary, as I am no good at Chinese geography and remembering the names of the sites.
(Note: these might not all be for TX4. Some might be making earlier versions. I don't know how the TX4 fits with past and future versions in the production plans, but suspect there won't be big Taxi changes from the TX4 for some time.)

[agreeable] 27/7/2007 14:38

Watch out for news that next week KPM one of MNGS biggest distributor will list via a reverse into plus markets minnow Pannal.
also expect news that KPM will soon launch their own rival to the MNGS black cab and are currently undergoing tests with TfL to prove it meets all the black cab criteria (turning circle etc).
This will truly put cat amongst the pigeons

[crystalclear] 13/7/2007 11:17

Geely's shares were suspended on the Hong Kong stock exchange as they announced they were buying some production facilities from their parent company. Antonov PLC annoounced that Geely's TX6 6-speed automatic would start production in early 2009 rather than late 2008. (Christopher Ross is a director of Manganese Bronze as well as Antonov PLC, so there is a reasonable chance of the new London Taxis getting Geely's TX6 (transmission), even if the TX4 (taxi) is supposed to be out for the Beijing Olympics in 2008).

[aoeiuv] 06/7/2007 11:58

Revealed: Martin Hughes, the £50m hedge fund king
By : Helen Dunne
04/07/2007

MARTIN Hughes, the activist hedge fund manager who was the first to demand radical changes to Dutch bank ABN Amro's strategy, was paid well over £50m (E74m, $100m) last year through a complex web of connected financial institutions, The Business can reveal.

His total wealth runs into hundreds of millions as Hughes, 45, emerges as the majority shareholder in at least five financial privately-owned organisations, according to filings with Companies House. His wife Celestina acts as company secretary for each business.

Hughes, who was once the City's top-rated banking analyst, received a bumper £41.6m from Toscafund Asset Management, a limited partnership incorporated on 13 June 2006.

The partnership, which commenced trading on 1 November 2006, was formed to take control of Toscafund, the activist hedge fund which acquired more than 1% of ABN Amro, the beleaguered Dutch bank currently at the centre of a bid battle, two years ago.

Hughes also owns 100% of Old Oak Holdings, a financial group, which acquired 100% of the share capital of Toscafund on 3 February 2006 (which then had a book value of £54.8m), nine months before the assets were transferred to Toscafund Asset Management.

He received an interim dividend payment totalling £10m from Toscafund on 28 September 2006. No final dividend was paid.

Toscafund generated pre-tax profits of £29.3m in the year ending 30 December, but shareholder funds totalled £64.3m. He was also the only director of Toscafund, earning a further £215,000.

Toscafund also operated three funds, listed on the Dublin Stock Exchange, with assets valued at £39.2m at 31 December, although £23.4m of this sum is directly owned by 13 employees.

Toscafund Asset Manage­ment generated profits, before the five members' remunerations, of £97.7m in the six months ending 31 December. Net assets attributable to members totalled £120.4m. A further £1.96m was owed to Toscafund, which is ultimately Hughes.

[b]He is also the sole director of Toscafield, which trades in quoted and unquoted shares and owns 5.34m shares in London black cab maker Manganese Bronze Holdings. [/b]

It also has an investment of £2.69m in Tosca, a fund based in the Cayman Islands, of which Hughes is a director. The market value of this investment was £4.7m on 3 February 2006.

[aoeiuv] 18/6/2007 21:09

Manganese Bronze Hld Manganese Bronze receives approvals in China for its JV with Geely Automobile

LONDON (Thomson Financial) - Manganese Bronze Holdings PLC said it has
received regulatory approvals in China for its joint venture with Geely
Automobile Holdings Ltd to produce the London taxi, a limousine and two large
saloon cars, in Shanghai.
The company said it has made applications for 5.7 mln shares to be issued to
Linkstate Overseas Ltd, a unit of Geely to be admitted to trading on the London
Stock Exchange.
The company said these shares are subject to certain lock-in deals and that
the trading of the new shares will begin on June 22.
Manganese Bronze added it has decided to change its accounting reference
date to Dec 31 from July 31 so that the financial results of the joint venture
are reported simultaneously to shareholders.

[aoeiuv] 18/6/2007 20:40

will the new 5.7million shares do any good for MNGS?

[njp] 30/5/2007 05:11

Had a look at the Edison note. Not kept my eye on the ball, have I. :-(

Well done to those who've profited from this over the last few months.

[welsheagle] 28/5/2007 18:51

From May's 'Company Refs', when price was 776p:-
a/ Prospective PE ratio of 43.9 (based on two broker forecasts,one recommending 'buy', and one recommending 'sell').
b/ Forecast growth in eps of 31.3%.
c/ Net asset value per share of 113p.
d/ Dividend yield of 1.05%.
e/ Turnover down from £119m to £83.8m in last five years.
f/ Three Directors selling recently.

[ariane] 22/5/2007 19:16

Manganese hails cab outlook
By Robert Orr and Neil Hume

Published: May 22 2007 03:00 | Last updated: May 22 2007 03:00

Black cabmaker Manganese Bronze closed at a fresh high thanks to a bullish note from Edison. The research, commissioned by the company, concluded the strong run on the shares would continue should Manganese Bronze succeed in its strategy of turning the distinctive vehicle into a global brand. Manganese wants to increase its taxi production from 3,000 cabs a year to 20,000 by 2011, shifting some production to China. Manganese shares, which have trebled in the past year, rose 4.6 per cent to 911p.

[merlin37] 22/5/2007 16:41

Apologies ..... outdated ( it was five or six years ago ) ...



Now there IS a growth market !!

[merlin37] 22/5/2007 16:35

I was a tad disappointed not seeing black cabs in Hong Kong ~ can things be about to change ???

[chester] 17/5/2007 16:24

breaking out.