M&g Share Discussion Threads

[woodhawk] 03/2/2023 12:46

We all have our own ways. I now primarily invest for income from divis. However, I enjoy trading, so if I see an opportunity to better my position, I'll take it. In the last 8 years, my trading income is slightly ahead of my divi income in £profit terms - however, as I am intending to trade less in future, that balance is likely to shift increasingly in favour of divi income. Each to their own, my way works for me and that's what counts. With an average return of 15%, all reinvested, I double my portfolio in 4.8 years. That'll do me.

[skinny] 03/2/2023 12:35

I've only held these for 2 years and the other 2 that I mentioned - LGEN for 12 years, PHNX for 9 years.... so hardly a trader.

I personally find charts interesting as I happen to like numbers - talking of which, if you invested purely on the basis of fundamentals you would have missed the tech boom, the likes of TSLA and many of the hydrogen facing companies of the last couple of years.

I am essentially an investor for income and value - but trading also has its place - just my view - and I'm not looking for an extended debate.

[cfro] 03/2/2023 11:56

Well, i have to step in here and ride to anhar's rescue. Calling him a muppet is a little uncalled for imo. His post above is one the best posts i have read for a while and he is spot-on on the TA debate.

Take it from me who is someone who has studied just about every method of investing over many decades. TA cannot see the future, it cannot tell you what tomorrow will bring....For this very reason it renders it useless.

[scruff1] 03/2/2023 11:53

Interesting topic thats gone on ever since they started using charts I would assume. I suspect Gnome is close to the mark. Personally I wouldnt invest any money without studying the fundamentals and doing as much reading/research as possible. Once decided the entry point is the next consideration though I have come to the conclusion that apart from large movements either way I shouldnt concern myself with current price fluctuations. If I do then it probably indicates that I am not fully convinced in my choice of stock. I like adages from seasoned investors (and not just Buffet). My dad was a successful investor and one of my favourites of his was 'if in doubt - buy nowt'.
My bigger concern than entry point is exit point. Two adages here I like and try to pay heed to (though I am quite hopeless) are 'Trees dont keep growing up to the sky' and 'dont be left holding the bags'. In my experience things change quickly often with little to no warning (at least for we small guys)-BP. yesterday for example. We cant see em coming so anhar imo is generally correct when he says forget short termism. Another adage which I cant remember exactly is that stocks only make money on x? (a very few)days in the year. In and out too much and you generally miss em. Ive never used charts (I dont understand em) but maybe if you are a big time Charlie trader of large sums then maybe they are of value. What use is knowing there is support and resistance to a small guy like me? Thats my opinions anyway and I generally do ok - not as good as many on advfn though who always seem to have sold just before crash and have bought just before gold is struck. I wish I understood their charts - I would be an avid learner !!

[anhar] 03/2/2023 10:56

Well at least you follow fundamentals as well. Most on ADVFN don't from what I've seen.

I'm happy to be a "muppet" as you called me. Has served me well. :~)

[lord gnome] 03/2/2023 10:50

Thank you for that sage advice anhar. I promise to give it the full and detailed consideration that it undoubtedly deserves. Muppet.Choose your stock based on fundamentals. Choose you entry and exit points based on charts. It's worked for me for 40 years and the only time I've lost major amounts of money is when I've ignored it.

[anhar] 03/2/2023 10:39

Chartism is nonsense. Most followers of this superstitious claptrap lose money. (not just my view, brokers' confirm most traders lose money and they nearly all follow TA) It's the predominant method of share selection that I've noticed amongst readers on ADVFN, essentially I'd guess because investors are too lazy or lack the skill to consider fundamentals. Naive people and newbies may be persuaded to use TA by the fact that most other readers use it. If everyone's doing it, it must be good, right? Wrong!

I'm not saying using fundamentals eliminates risk but it sure reduces it imo.

Even the terminology of TA is laughable, "resistance" "gaps" blah blah, when there is no such thing.

Another point I've noticed with ADVFN is that almost nobody seems to lose money, all liars of course. They either lie absolutely or by omission, showing winning trades but concealing the losing ones.

My advice, forget short termism, it's mostly a losing approach. Invest long term in a broad spread of industries based on a few fundamentals such as a good yield etc. Then do nothing for the next several decades. No guarantees but this imo is the most likely way for small investors to really score from the market. Admittedly it is boring though but boring wins. Craving excitement by frequent trading, especially TA based, loses.

My style is a long term very diversified income port. It's done very well over the decades even though income is my aim, not gains, but I freely admit to there always being a few shares in there which have proven duds over the years. You can't win 'em all but you don't have to, it's sufficient that there are enough winners to compensate for the losers and then some, long term.

[skinny] 03/2/2023 09:26

Jubberjim 210 is now an area of resistance and there is a gap to fill at that level.

I'd like to think the gap will get filled - but nothing is guaranteed - like many, I hold LGEN, PHNX & MNG - MNG being my smallest holding of the 3.

[gbh2] 03/2/2023 08:28

imo Trading volume way too low for Charts to indicate anything other than what happened a few moments ago.

[jubberjim] 02/2/2023 18:29

Skinny

Pardon my ignorance but does that signify a retracement or will this have the opposite effect and send it higher

In your opinion

Read chartists as sometimes gives me an idea as to why the share price moves at odds with my expectation without having the nous to understand why

Thanks

[woodhawk] 02/2/2023 18:20

If it doesn't make one iota of difference, why bother trying to big yourself up? Anyway enough of this pointless waffle. Anyone can invent fantasy trades 'til the cows come home. Good luck to you too.

[jubberjim] 02/2/2023 18:07

Woodhawk (doubting Thomas)

Not that it makes one iota of difference to me as to whether you believe

Mng trade placed at 08 10 am on 13 October 2022 @161.35 after brokerage and s duty 162.75

Others placed that morning in same time frame

Anyway I m happy so wish you all the best let's see what the next few days bring

[skinny] 02/2/2023 16:48

Well todays 210.40p and candle, close the recent couple of gaps and take the price back to the bottom of the gap from last August.

[woodhawk] 02/2/2023 16:42

"Phnx 501 Initial buy at 504
Lgen 201 initial buy at 206
Mng. 160 initial buy at 162.5"

Of course you did!

Rather pointless anonymous posters posting unverifiable trades long after the event isn't it? We can all do that.

[jubberjim] 02/2/2023 16:07

I thought Bloomberg was owned by bloke called funnily enough Bloomberg

Anyway my starting points for my last foray into these egregious share were as follows

Phnx 501 Initial buy at 504
Lgen 201 initial buy at 206
Mng. 160 initial buy at 162.5

Anyway so far tracking each other more or less but when one falls out of bed I act and hope to the almighty I am right which does happen occasionally

All paying decent dividends but will be looking to sell mng @ anywhere over 227

But challenging market at mom no head nor fail

Rolling with the punches and surviving

Don t mention dlg and abdn basket cases he pair of them hence clear out of Dlg at 215 today right or wrong
By the way I too started at 242 And bought all the way down to 134 but still ended with small loss

It's going to get worse Bailey is a humpty

Takes one to know one

Good luck everyone

[tuftymatt] 02/2/2023 15:40

I am just stating what is said on there by many people. Take it or leave it I don't mind.

[woodhawk] 02/2/2023 13:35

I like to make my own judgements, not follow others. Then I know who's calling it right, or wrong. What's so good about Bloomberg anyway? Don't you think they might be as biased as anyone else? Do you actually know who owns Bloomberg (without Googling it)?

[tuftymatt] 02/2/2023 13:08

I am not saying I agree with them and always make my own decisions. The market is "funny" at the moment though in my opinion both here and in the US and being cautious during what many view as a bear market rally is never a bad thing.

The market is there to be traded in good and bad times but what I have said is the feeling of many based on what is said on an almost daily basis on Bloomberg.

Take it or leave it but it's fact as per the people on the show that come from many different areas and countries across the financial world.

[woodhawk] 02/2/2023 12:52

I bet you could find just as many market 'professionals' of one sort or another that would take all sorts of alternate and/or contrary views. A 'Fund manager' knows no more about the future than you or I.

If you believe 'fund mangers' are any sort of reliable guide, or have some roadmap unavailable to mere mortals, then why not just put all your money in funds?

[tuftymatt] 02/2/2023 12:50

I am talking about all those companies reporting Q4 earnings now and many of the fund managers etc out there.

Projections for the year ahead are put forward by them all and the feeling was we would see a dip then rip in the second half of 23 following the possibility of rate cuts.

It's not played out that way yet but that's what was expected.

[woodhawk] 02/2/2023 12:45

"Consensus was Q4 earnings would lead to a sell off"

What are you talking about? What consensus? Whose earnings?

"Margin compression isn't good for shares"

Are you just reeling off cliches? What ARE you talking about?

[tuftymatt] 02/2/2023 12:30

Consensus was Q4 earnings would lead to a sell off but I agree much of the UK is undervalued. It's also being helped by US buyers coming in right now too.

I agree there is more to come with the individual shares mentioned that we all hold but do think the wider market could come off before too long. Margin compression isn't good for shares and neither is a squeezed consumer.

[woodhawk] 02/2/2023 12:21

Expecting some more catch-up on PHNX, M&G and especially LGEN as we move into the big divi season. Can't believe that LGEN is still stalled at 260p since December - they didn't even cut their divi during the pandemic!

[garycook] 02/2/2023 11:59

Woody,Totally agree LGEN worth 300p,MNG worth 250p plus,and PHNX 800p.Also all been at these SP,s before.