Lloyds Banking Share Discussion Threads

[careful] 04/12/2018 22:22

The £ fell again today.
An experienced commentator of CNBC said Brexit problems were behind tonights Dow fall.

May's strategy seems doomed to failure,
but maybe she sees a way out.
A collapse in financial markets may concentrate the minds of MP's.
The second vote could go through if the markets crash.

[patientcapital] 04/12/2018 22:20

EU utopia lol.

[patientcapital] 04/12/2018 22:19

Macron backing down. Let them eat cake.

[stonedyou] 04/12/2018 22:17

Australian RULEs only!



Notably the work that gives certainty to millions of citizens on either side of

the Channel,

[minerve] 04/12/2018 22:01

Oh well, good luck chimps, top banana! 😂

[xxxxxy] 04/12/2018 21:59

For those looking for quick answers and not too much reading.

We will give up £39bn for nothing.

Under the terms of the backstop we have to stay in the customs union while Northern Ireland – and therefore the rest of the UK - will stay in regulatory alignment unless and until the EU decides to let us go.
And why should they?

By handing over the 39bn we lose all our leverage in the talks. With a £95bn surplus with us in goods alone the EU has absolutely no interest in allowing us to go off and do free trade
Because there is another way – and we not should pretend that it will be easy but after two and a half wasted years no option is easy and this is the only option that not only delivers on the will of the people but maintains our self-respect as a country and that is to say what is obvious from this debate and from every poll I have seen, we should go back and say to Brussels that yes, we want a deal if we can get one.

And yes, there is much in this Withdrawal Agreement that we can keep. Notably the work that gives certainty to millions of citizens on either side of the Channel, but we must be clear this house will not accept the backstop and the question of the Irish border is for the future partnership and not the withdrawal agreement and we use that implementation period to negotiate that future partnership, as the government itself envisages.

And by the way we should withhold at least half the £39bn until that negotiation is concluded I believe the EU will sense that the government has found its resolve and will be willing to deal on those terms but in case they are not we must be absolutely emphatic that we are now preparing urgently for the possibility that we will indeed have to leave before we have reached a final agreement.

[xxxxxy] 04/12/2018 21:56

Great speech.

Boris Johnson
My speech to the House of Commons this evening on the proposed agreement:
I can’t believe there is a single member of this House who sincerely believes that this is a good deal for the UK.
You can tell that the government’s hearts are not in it.
You can tell that they know it is a disaster because after two and a half years this deal has done an amazing thing it has brought us together – remainers and leavers in the belief that it is a national humiliation that makes a mockery of Brexit.
There will be no proper free trade deals. We will not take back control of our laws and for the government to continue to suggest otherwise is to do violence to the normal meaning of words.
We will give up £39bn for nothing. We will not really be taking back control of our borders.
Not only have we yet to settle the terms on which EU migrants will come to this country but we will be levying EU tariffs at UK ports and sending 80 per cent of the cash to Brussels.
In short we are going to be rules takers. A colony. And out of sheer funk we are ensuring that we will never ever be able to take advantage of the freedoms that we should have won by Brexit.
Under the terms of the backstop we have to stay in the customs union while Northern Ireland – and therefore the rest of the UK - will stay in regulatory alignment unless and until the EU decides to let us go.
And why should they?
By handing over the 39bn we lose all our leverage in the talks. With a £95bn surplus with us in goods alone the EU has absolutely no interest in allowing us to go off and do free trade deals round the world of a kind that might undercut their manufacturers.
When they look at the power they will have over the whole of UK manufacturing - unchecked and unmediated power to legislate for the UK and with no UK representation, do you think they will lightly abandon their advantage and take their foot off our neck?
And they have us in permanent captivity as a reminder to the world of what happens to all those who try to leave the EU. This is a recipe for blackmail and it is open to any member of the EU to name its price for Britain’s right to leave the backstop.
The Spanish will make a play for Gibraltar. The French will be after our fish and our bankers. The Germans may well want some concessions on the free movement of EU nationals - and so it goes on.
The worst of it is that we have not even tried to leave or shown any real interest in choosing a different future. These manacles were forged in Britain by our own negotiators with the express purpose of keeping us locked in the customs union and the single market in defiance of the wishes of the people.
One should be careful about claiming any kind of subterfuge.
But it is very hard to understand how the former Sec of state for DExEU could have been kept in the dark about that crucial addition to paragraph 23 of the political declaration.
Where this country agreed - without the knowledge of the elected politician responsible - that our future relationship would be based on the backstop.
No one campaigned for this outcome. No one voted for it. This is not Brexit but a feeble simulacrum of national independence. It is a paint and plaster pseudo Brexit and beneath the camouflage we find the same old EU institutions the customs union and single market regulation adjudicated by the European Court of Justice.
If we vote for this deal we are not taking back but losing control and as part of what should be a representative democracy we would be turkeys voting for Christmas.
Actually, it is worse than that. There is a sense in which we would be voting for turkey or Turkish style membership of the customs union. Obliged to watch as access to the UK market is traded by Brussels but with no say in the negotiations and yet of course with its EU veto the backstop arrangement is even more subservient than that imposed on Turkey.
The wonder of it is that any democratic politician could consider voting for it at all and yet I know that many good colleagues are indeed going to do so in the belief that we have no alternative, that we have run out of road and that Brussels will offer us nothing else.
So I want respectfully to deal with these anxieties, because I believe they are profoundly mistaken and we need to understand what happens when – as I very much hope – this great House of Commons votes down this deal.
In Brussels they think that they have us beat. They think that our nerve will eventually fail, they think that the PM will come to the summit next week and ask for some cosmetic changes and they will grant some language that is intended to be helpful but which does not change the legal position and they are confident that sometime before March next year the government will come back to this House and that this deal will go through because as everybody will keep saying, there is allegedly no alternative.
The Norway option will be seen for what it is – an even worse solution than that currently proposed the notion of extending Article 50 – delaying the date of Brexit – would be greeted with fury by the electorate and having studied us in detail they do not think we have the resolve to face them down and get significant change they think we have nothing left in our tank that we will take a deal at virtually any price and now is the time therefore to show that they grossly underestimate this country and this House of Commons and our attachment to our liberties.
Because there is another way – and we not should pretend that it will be easy but after two and a half wasted years no option is easy and this is the only option that not only delivers on the will of the people but maintains our self-respect as a country and that is to say what is obvious from this debate and from every poll I have seen, we should go back and say to Brussels that yes, we want a deal if we can get one.
And yes, there is much in this Withdrawal Agreement that we can keep. Notably the work that gives certainty to millions of citizens on either side of the Channel, but we must be clear this house will not accept the backstop and the question of the Irish border is for the future partnership and not the withdrawal agreement and we use that implementation period to negotiate that future partnership, as the government itself envisages.
And by the way we should withhold at least half the £39bn until that negotiation is concluded I believe the EU will sense that the government has found its resolve and will be willing to deal on those terms but in case they are not we must be absolutely emphatic that we are now preparing urgently for the possibility that we will indeed have to leave before we have reached a final agreement.
And yes that will mean a national effort and yes it will mean that we will have to get all our ports ready to make sure goods can flow freely into this country and we will have to make sure that planes can fly and the Treasury will have to use the £39bn to support the economy rather than talking it down but far better to make that effort now and at least to be responsible for our destiny than to agree to give up our right to self-government forever.
Just because of a lack of short term logistical competence and quite frankly the EU will not treat us as a sovereign equal unless and until we are willing to stand up for our own interests and our own future and I tell you this the country is ready for us to take this stand if we have to.
Because they have had enough of being told that we can’t do it, that even the fifth or sixth biggest economy in the world is not strong enough to run itself. And if we fail now it won’t be good enough to say to our fishermen that it was all too difficult to take back control of our fish.

[alphorn] 04/12/2018 21:54

At least a bit of humour:

Brexiteer MP Jacob Rees-Mogg claimed the situation was so farcical that ‘panto season’ had arrived in Westminster.

[maxk] 04/12/2018 21:52

Or the advice will be re-written..

[diku] 04/12/2018 21:49

So surely the MPs will want to see the advice in full before voting next week...

[careful] 04/12/2018 21:49

Brexit has taught me even more about the British mentality.

It makes me shudder to think of the referenda Corbyn could call and win.
Be careful what you wish for.

[alphorn] 04/12/2018 21:47

g - "The Commons leader, Andrea Leadsom, said the government would comply and publish the advice in full on Wednesday". (Guardian may have got it wrong of course or it may be another Wednesday).

[diku] 04/12/2018 21:29

With Dow down tonight...Nik225 will have a diarrhoea tomorrow!....

[polar fox] 04/12/2018 21:23

After hours, LYG is around $2.75, which is equivalent to about 54.10p at $1.2715, very close to last month's 2-yr low at 54.08. The share price in NY is at its lowest since 10/16.

Remember that NY is closed tomorrow, for the late GHWB.

[careful] 04/12/2018 21:22

Theresa may has no political instinct.
She should have known that parliament could humiliate her and make her publish the legal advice.
Just like the general election, she did not sense danger.

What a mess.

Brexiteers should know by now that negotiating your own trade deals better than those negotiated by the EU. is impossible.
But they will not admit it.
Liam Fox has learned that they just want to sell you food.
he is trying hard to roll over existing deals, but even that its difficult.

[minerve] 04/12/2018 21:18

Oh dear

UK banks could face multibillion pound liabilities for mis-sold mortgages — ME Group

[minerve] 04/12/2018 21:17

Yes, bring back democracy and all that sh*te, and the biggest clowns to ignore it are in London, not in Brussels. Duh! Well done Brexit voters.

[k38] 04/12/2018 21:10

Listening to bbc news make you sick by their propaganda.

[leoneobull] 04/12/2018 21:09

UK government found in contempt of UK parliament for first time. Now that's representative democracy folks.And lest we forget, Parliament would not have had a meaningful vote on Brexit at all had it not been for Gina Miller taking the UK government to court. ramming through a deal without even knowing what the deal contains isn't very democratic is it?

[newbank] 04/12/2018 21:04

Stonedyou and xxxxxy,

Could you please answer a few questions in order for me and others to understand your argument. Emotions apart and without illogical or nationalistic rhetoric:

1) If TM's Brexit deal vote is rejected on Tuesday what then?

2)I doubt the majority of the Conservative Party would vote for BJ. Who then if there is an internal confidence vote? Mogg, clever chap but I doubt if he will appeal to the mass electorate in any GE.

3) If TM loses the vote then all the six opposition parties will call a no confidence vote and try and force a GE. Yes I know 2/3 have to vote for it but if Parliament is left in a state of not being able to Govern there is a distinct possibility a GE will be forced one way or other. In that event, do you think the mass electorate would vote for the Conservatives when they are asked to decide between a Party that is so split and another Party? Would you be happy to see an extreme Left Wing Government take control and Nationalise everything that is good in this Country and take Control of at least 10% of all Companies that have 250+ employees?

4), If an Extreme Left wing Gov was elected what would that do to your investments, pensions, assets and your children's future?

I am not Left wing nor Right wing but just want to understand, respectfully, what your argument advocates.

[careful] 04/12/2018 21:04

dow finished almost 800 points down.