Lloyds Banking Share Discussion Threads

[minerve 2] 06/12/2020 11:34

Sovereignty = freedom = WTO rules.

[grahamite2] 06/12/2020 11:31

Brilliant editorial from The Telegraph, thanks Max.

[investtofly] 06/12/2020 11:28

Macron has already admitted that The French people would vote to leave The EU if they were given a referendum and I'm sure Germany would do the same.That is why they're playing Hard Ball.

[grahamite2] 06/12/2020 11:28

It's not so much that the EU never wanted a deal, but rather, they wanted a deal 100% on their terms, 0% on ours.

The EU does not do negotiation, it gives orders. Ask Dave. Ask Greece.

But this country has had enough of taking orders from them.

[maxk] 06/12/2020 11:20

THE SUN ON SUNDAY SAYS If Brexit talks break down, it’s clear the EU never really
wanted a deal and just wanted to punish Britain



COMMENT
The Sun
5 Dec 2020, 23:43Updated: 5 Dec 2020, 23:43






WE’VE just moved a giant step closer to a No Deal Brexit.

Against all odds our negotiators worked doggedly to bring us to the brink of an historic trade agreement.


But after last night’s call between Boris Johnson and Ursula von der Leyen it is clear that is now dangling by the thinnest of threads.

The reason for this is clear — the entirely unreasonable approach of the EU.

Firstly they dragged their feet agreeing the legal text, then at the last minute European negotiators hijacked talks with a raft of last-minute demands.

These changes were made at the behest of France’s petulant president Emmanuel Macron — trying to seize our historic rights to shore up his plunging popularity.

His insistence that his fishermen retain rights to our waters for ten years are frankly ludicrous, and we must never give in to them.

Brexit is about wresting back control of our sovereignty — and that includes our waters.

Today our negotiating team heads to Brussels in what must surely be the final attempt to patch together a deal.

If, as looks certain, these talks break down there is only one conclusion to be drawn: the EU never really wanted a deal.

Instead its most vocal elements were hellbent on punishing Britain for daring to vote for Brexit.

Whatever the cost to both sides.

[careful] 06/12/2020 11:12

'we cannot surrender to this sort of thing'

The opening shots of an economic war against Europe.

To quote our foreign secretary at the start of WW1.
"The lamps are going out all over Europe, they will not be lit in my lifetime"

When we joined in 1974 the UK was an economic basket case, the sick man of Europe.
That is why we joined.
Here we go again, clogs to clogs in 3 generations.

[maxk] 06/12/2020 11:02

This used to be a remain paper...




Mail on Sunday COMMENT: Grandiose Macron and vaccine prove we're right to leave



By MAIL ON SUNDAY COMMENT FOR THE MAIL ON SUNDAY

PUBLISHED: 00:55, 6 December 2020 | UPDATED: 09:46, 6 December 2020





The behaviour of the European Union in the Brexit talks shows very clearly just why it is necessary for this country to leave that body.

The EU is unable to respect the sovereignty and free will of any nation that comes under its authority.

Faced by a country wishing to pursue its own interests, the superstate becomes intransigent and impossible to negotiate with.



In terms of normal diplomacy, the EU negotiating team's decision to raise near-impossible difficulties in the final days of bargaining is crude, ill-mannered and dangerous.

To demand unfettered access to fish in British waters for ten years would be a rash and difficult demand at any stage.

With hours to go before an agreement must be reached, it was plain irresponsible.

Much the same can be said for the suggestion that Britain should be effectively tied to the very EU regulations that departure allows us to escape. Experienced negotiators regard the sudden blockage as 'ridiculous' and 'laughable'.

This is not the way that civilised statesmen treat each other, and it puts Britain in a position where it must stand firm.


Already this country is beginning to benefit from the freedom that independence gives. Our decision to go ahead with Covid vaccines is a perfect example.

We no longer have to wait, like a fast ship forced to plod along at half-speed in a convoy, for the slowest and most bureaucratic states in the EU to make their minds up.

We can do what we think best in our national interest. And that is what we shall be able to do in many other fields, once we have regained the freedom of action we gave up to Brussels almost 50 years ago. One liberation will lead to another. It is a fitting symbol of our new status.


So why has the French president, the posturing and grandiose Emmanuel Macron, hurled his spanner in the works with days to spare before a deal must be made?

It is easy to guess that he has done so because of his domestic problems (currently he has had to back down from an outrageously oppressive new police law, and a group of Paris gendarmes have been charged with savagely beating a black music producer).

He almost always seems to have domestic problems, and his original promise to be a new kind of politician faded long ago.

But it is also the case that France has never hesitated to use the European community to get its own way. In the 1960s, President De Gaulle ruthlessly blocked British entry for selfish national reasons.


Now, in a curious reversal, another self-interested French president is blocking British departure.

The rest of the EU, especially Germany, may feel this is foolish, but the European need for unanimity, and France's special standing at the very heart of the project, gives Paris extraordinary power.

In normal negotiations, this sort of thing would not happen. Both parties would seek the best possible deal for themselves, and settle on that basis.

But these are not normal negotiations. Politics, rather than mutual prosperity, have got the upper hand.

Faced with this sort of foolishness and petulance, Boris Johnson has no choice but to stand his ground and not give in.

And the British people, who can recognise arrogant obstruction when they see it, will undoubtedly back their Prime Minister all the way. We cannot surrender to this sort of thing, and we will not.

[careful] 06/12/2020 11:01

Extension? you must joking.
4 years and no change at all in the original positions.
So they need more time.
For what?

[investtofly] 06/12/2020 10:24

Totally agree with you about the Jocks. Can't wait for the next vote for Independence butPLEASE PLEASE PLEASE Let ALL of The U.K. vote

[scruff1] 06/12/2020 10:21

Have you seen the picture on the MoS. Huge crowds at Harrods. Police make 4 arrests for breaching covid rules. Looks to me like those 4 must have been plumb unlucky. Bet I know what colour they were or we would surely have heard a tad more. They have made more arrests playing Dukes of Hazard on the Yorkshire border

[utrickytrees] 06/12/2020 10:09

Your about Alphorn, is Helmut still hard?

[maxk] 06/12/2020 09:39

Boris Johnson will make 'one last throw of the dice' in Brexit trade talks after hour-long phone call with EU chief failed to resolve 'significant differences' - and could address the nation on No Deal if deadlock remains by tomorrow



Boris Johnson and Ursula von der Leyen failed to resolve 'significant differences'

Talks will resume on Monday in hope that the impasse can be broken by evening

If no agreement is made Mr Johnson could make a dramatic address to nation

He might be forced to announce that the UK will leave the EU without a deal


By GLEN OWEN and BRENDAN CARLIN and ANNA MIKHAILOVA FOR THE MAIL ON SUNDAY

PUBLISHED: 22:40, 5 December 2020 | UPDATED: 09:15, 6 December 2020



Boris Johnson will make 'one last throw of the dice' in trade talks with the EU on Monday to avert a No Deal Brexit at the end of the month as negotiations remained deadlocked this weekend.

An hour-long phone call between the Prime Minister and European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen failed to resolve the 'significant differences' between London and Brussels over French demands for Britain to remain tied to EU rules. Talks will resume in Brussels today.

If the impasse is not broken by tomorrow evening, when Mr Johnson and Ms von der Leyen speak again, Mr Johnson could make a dramatic address to the nation announcing that the UK will leave without a deal.


The Government's scope to make concessions in the talks is limited by pressure from Brexit-supporting Tory backbenchers – some of whom have privately threatened to try to force a leadership contest if the Prime Minister surrenders any of the country's post-EU freedoms.



After making the call from his Chequers country escape, Mr Johnson released a joint statement with Ms von der Leyen which said that 'significant differences remain on three critical issues: level playing field, governance and fisheries', adding: 'Both sides underlined that no agreement is feasible if these issues are not resolved.'

Last night, a source close to the talks said: 'This is the final throw of the dice.

'There is a fair deal to be done that works for both sides but this will only happen if the EU is willing to respect fundamental principles of sovereignty and control.'

British negotiators were left stunned by a sudden hardening of the EU position at the behest of French President Emmanuel Macron, who said he would veto any deal that threatened French interests.

One source called them 'unprecedented last-minute demands incompatible with our commitment to becoming a sovereign nation', adding: 'There is barely any time left, and this process may not end in agreement.'

Peter Bone, one of the 'Spartans', a group of Tory MPs named for their hard line on Brexit, said: 'I would bet my house Boris won't sell out Britain in any deal he gets.'



More:

[alphorn] 06/12/2020 09:30

Using your inexistent judgment I don't expect to read anything about the EU or the US on this thread. You don't live there and any comments are irrelevant. Fool.

[alphorn] 06/12/2020 09:28

mm2 - your blinkers are your problem. The lack of judgement on this thread is demonstrated time and time again. I would not get you to change a tap.