Share Name Share Symbol Market Type Share ISIN Share Description
Lindsell Train Investment Trust LSE:LTI London Ordinary Share GB0031977944 ORD 75P
  Price Change % Change Share Price Bid Price Offer Price High Price Low Price Open Price Shares Traded Last Trade
  -£35.00 -4.12% £815.00 £825.00 £845.00 £820.00 £815.00 £820.00 94 12:56:55
Industry Sector Turnover (m) Profit (m) EPS - Basic PE Ratio Market Cap (m)
Equity Investment Instruments 4.9 3.9 0.0 - 179.30

Lindsell Train Investment Share Discussion Threads

Showing 51 to 74 of 75 messages
Chat Pages: 3  2  1
DateSubjectAuthorDiscuss
31/7/2017
21:17
I like investing in fund managers. Hold most of them. Impax are my favourite at the moment. Polar, City of London Investment Group and Miton are all nice.
topvest
31/7/2017
20:32
Without a doubt topvest - they are not churning stock and adding up fees that's for sure. I have a lot of FGT and fundsmith along with individual holdings in unilever, Diageo and Sage to same a few overlaps. Cant really see me changing my approach. I think the fund management industry is a great area to invest in. Train likes Rathbones and Schroders. Any managers you like topvest? I did admire hendersons before its take over but never invested. Might be easier to buy some Guinness asset managers fund....... Really like HL but the valuation puts me off.
mozy123
31/7/2017
18:50
Yes, I don't like the performance fee either, but I do like Nick Train and Lindsell Train. I would invest in the asset manager if it was listed and so this is the main attraction of the trust. It's also zero cost for me as I've sold 2/3rd of my original holding at very nice profits. Think Nick Train is probably the most influential U.K. Investor. Particularly like the fact that he has only invested in about 1 new company in a decade...magnificent! Probably a little extreme, but underlines how poor and short-term most active asset managers really are in the U.K.
topvest
31/7/2017
16:49
The only problem I have with this trust is the performance fee. The benchmark is some long dated gilt benchmark. I wouldnt have a problem if it was an equity index, but all that seems to happen is that LTI gets a dividend from its 20% holding in the manager (37.5% of LTI assets) and pays it all back as performance fee. A wonderful setup for Train and Lindsell as majority holders of LT Ltd with an nice income flow into LT Ltd from LTI. We are essentially sacrificing the income in the hope that AUM continues to climb at LT Ltd and thus the capital valuation of the manager. One could argue however that the performance fee paid to LT Ltd from LTI increases the valuation of LT Ltd at the margin of 11.76 times the fee! / 2 / the 20% LTI owns. a £2.8mil fee creates £3.3mil icnrease valuation..... Worth paying and riding the Lindsell train Gravy Train! I doubt very much they will change this set-up.
mozy123
31/7/2017
14:52
Agreed. That's why I think the Chairman should stop warning that the premium is unjustified. Just because they have taken an exceptionally cautious approach on the valuation doesn't mean others should see it this way. I don't see any reason why Lindsell Train Limited can't continue for another 20 years or so with some suitable succession planning on getting others to do much of the legwork and marketing.
topvest
31/7/2017
14:04
They use 8.5% discount rate in the accounts to value the fund manager. 1/8.5 = 11.76 P/E (£213,613,325)a But the valuation is dragged down abit by the 1.5% (134,020,411)b Company val (a+b/2)/2666 shares = £65201 per share 1.5% valuation at of May factsheet was around £9bil in aum but this has now increased to £10bn the market is assuming the valuation of the fund manager is 1.5times higher than the directors think. 37.5%/100 = 2.67 * 18.5% prem = 50% on the fund manager. I still think LTI is undervalued. Hargreaves Lansdown is valued at 7.5% AUM!!!!!!!!!!!!!
mozy123
03/7/2017
17:41
He's 58 so a fair point if he retires. I suppose he could stay on in a Non Exec Chairman type role rather than trash what he has worked for. Think they are developing their team anyway. Bottom line is that it's not a career where you have to retire as such, particularly given his do nothing but read style.
topvest
03/7/2017
14:48
Don't disagree - they're been somewhat disingenuous with their "..Trading at a substantial premium" warnings. However - Mr Train will retire eventually, and if that article I'm probably misquoting is to be believed, then it's not that far away. I reckon he's aged 59? I know Buffett & Charlie Munger are way older but neither has said they'll quit. I'm also suspicious of any outperforming managers - nothing lasts for ever, as Anthony Bolton so memorably demonstrated (FCSS), and as Neil Woodford may be in the process of proving! The sort of bond proxy long term winners that have done stupendously for the likes of Terry Smith & Lindsell Train won't do well forever. As for only one buy/sell in 5 years - he could have done with selling Pearson! :) I digress - my point is, the stake in the fund manager relies on the key man risk of two getting-older blokes, as well as the continued outperformance of LTI. Makes me think an 8% earnings yield isn't an unreasonably valuation for it.
spectoacc
03/7/2017
14:11
Yes, fair points. Remember that Mr Train has an ability to do very well from doing nothing though. My sort of person! He has only chosen one new share to invest in over 5 years, I think. He could therefore continue to be a fund manager in the Buffet style for another 30 years! All depends whether he wants to give it up. Lets be clear though that the premium is not really investor stupidity. It's because the market values Lindsell Train Limited more highly than management's valuation on an 8% trailing dividend yield. Think they should be more honest on that rather than just warning everyone to sell. If they think it really is overvalued then they should be issuing shares or selling their own shares. They don't do either because they have always wanted to retain a high weighting to the fund manager and not dilute their own interests in a very valuable asset!
topvest
03/7/2017
07:43
3 things come to mind: 1. It's not listed, nor is it ever likely to be - so how does the value get realised? 2. How long do Mr Lindsell and Mr Train have left? Think I recall NT saying a couple of years ago that he was "two thirds of the way through" his career - but I may be badly misquoting! 3. As you say, the value of the management co depends on the success of the investment co - a curious form of gearing that will work in both directions. Majedie very similar. Of the above, no.2 seems the most relevant, & all lead me to think that a big valuation discount (on the management co) is warranted.
spectoacc
02/7/2017
22:07
Odd investment trust this. They spend most of the time warning investors about the premium. In reality the premium reflects the undervaluation on Lindsell Train using their valuation of an average of 1.5% of AUM and a P/E of about 12. Just ran this valuation methodology on Polar Capital. Interestingly it gives a valuation of about £178m. The market cap is £404m! Lindsell Train is valued on a historical dividend yield of 8%. Lindsell Train is worth more than £175M in my view. If it was listed I would expect it to be worth at least 50% more than this and possibly 100% more in current market conditions. Of course, this could turn south rapidly on a stock market fall or from poor Lindsell Train performance, but at the moment its undervalued in my view. Personally, I would BUY shares in Lindsell Train on an 8% yield. Happy to hold my remaining 1/3rd. Top-sliced twice. Maybe I should have kept them all!
topvest
01/3/2017
19:47
The director sales and LTI sale to James Bullock was flagged a year ago and is just about succession planning. The value and premium here is all about the asset manager LT and succession is important. JB recently penned an essay on the compounding beauty of Unilever...I think a couple of days before Kraft tried to buy. I am a holder but have sold about half in the past 12 months when the premium got too rich. Typically rolled into it's cousin Finsbury Growth and Income at NAV.
steve3sandal
01/3/2017
16:13
just noticed director dealings!
peterdabbler
28/2/2017
17:23
Wow what a site ...just discovered it today by putting into Goog "whats been happening to LTI lately"...and already seen more and better advice than in the press or annual reports just to add my bit... read about LTI ages ago in a publication called (I think) Investment Trust News also mentioned were Law Deb and all the usual suspects...and they are all still doing well bit of a novice here but was always a bit worried about the premium etc. Thanks to all on Forum Pete
peterdabbler
31/1/2017
20:28
Good call on your last sell @topvest.
spectoacc
31/1/2017
20:04
Well they have warned 2/3 times that the share price was at a ridiculous premium. Nothing they need to do, but carry on doing what they have always done.
topvest
31/1/2017
17:06
This IT is like a casino! What's NT doing about it?
umitw
21/12/2016
12:45
Well I've halved my holding today. The premium is very high at the moment. Now sold 2/3 of my original holding. Will hopefully retain the rest.
topvest
24/8/2016
07:21
Fair point @MF, though all gurus will stumble at some point - hence big premiums for future outperformance seem unjustified. Eg a -10% year for LTI could easily knock 30% off the price, with the effect on the valuation of the management co, the double effect on the NAV, and a reduction in the premium. -30% and still trading at a premium! I've long had a dislike of T Smith from something that happened with a stock I held, but perhaps FEET a good example, bailed out only by the £ collapse (the rise been since late June).
spectoacc
23/8/2016
21:51
Terry Smith did run the Collins Stewart pension scheme for quite a while and was a very highly regarded analyst in the 80s. Much more than a one trick pony imo. I agree that is takes a whole cycle to really judge performance, but with Fundsmith having nearly tripled in 5 years, it could manage a big setback and still be top quartile.The thing about Fundsmith and LT is that they have looked expensive for a long time and have continued to go up. No prizes for sitting on the sidelines in this game. I bought a load in 2013 and have held off buying since, thinking it must come back down...
mad foetus
23/8/2016
19:37
The one thing to think about with Nick Train is that he has only made one new buy decision in the last 5 or 10 years. It's not as if he needs to work that hard to keep things going!
topvest
23/8/2016
08:29
Agreed; have a big holding in LWDB, particularly ISA'd. However, did more research on LTI yesterday. It's a curious beast - pays performance fees to the co that makes up 33% of its NAV, and a large part of the outperformance is the rise in value of that co! ie it's effectively highly geared - the more LTI does well, the higher the performance fees and also the more external money goes to LindselL Train Ltd. Has led to stellar growth, and in truth they've not valued it too highly - I reckon (and don't rely on my reading of both sets of accounts) at a p/e of approx. 8, when probably nearer 16 if listed. Ignoring, of course, that both honchos are in their 50s. Munger & Buffet average age over 80, fwiw. So - if Mr Lindsell and Mr Train continue to pick well (not including PSON last year), the management co continues to do well and LTI continues to do well. If I'm right that p/e 16 is more realistic than p/e 8, for something growing so fast, then that's 33% onto the NAV in an instant. Still overvalued, but probably by about 15-20% rather than 57%.
spectoacc
23/8/2016
08:15
Crazy premium to NAV. Look at LWDB as a parallel but its on a discount of 11% including its in-house business.
davebowler
22/8/2016
11:05
I see they rather sensibly changed the management fee as being calculated on "the lower of NAV or shareprice". Personally I'd like to see that as a law for all ITs. Some with dubious NAVs (eg smallcap funds, valuing holdings at bid that they wouldn't even be able to flog at a 50% discount) can end up getting a management fee on twice the shareprice. But - isn't the LTI premium now out of control? I'm not a fan of "gurus", be it Anthony Bolton (), Neil Woodford (small pharma fiascos) or Nick Train, who like Terry Smith has been brilliantly right for owning the bond proxy "brand" cos, but won't necessarily continue to be brilliantly right. According to HL the premium is 57%; I fail to see how a 33% holding in two-man band Lindsell Train can justify that. Nor can holding a handful of stocks I could easily buy myself, that seem as likely to underperform from here as outperform - DGE, ULVR, LSE, BAG, Nintendo, RELX, Heineken, Mondelez.
spectoacc
Chat Pages: 3  2  1
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