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LTI Lindsell Train Investment Trust Plc

-10.00 (-1.14%)
01 Dec 2023 - Closed
Delayed by 15 minutes
Share Name Share Symbol Market Type Share ISIN Share Description
Lindsell Train Investment Trust Plc LSE:LTI London Ordinary Share GB0031977944 ORD 75P
  Price Change % Change Share Price Shares Traded Last Trade
  -10.00 -1.14% 865.00 157 16:35:08
Bid Price Offer Price High Price Low Price Open Price
852.00 878.00 880.00 854.00 880.00
Industry Sector Turnover Profit EPS - Basic PE Ratio Market Cap
Trust,ex Ed,religious,charty 1.16M -771k -3.8550 -221.53 170.8M
Last Trade Time Trade Type Trade Size Trade Price Currency
16:13:05 O 2 85,486.00 GBP

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Date Time Title Posts
24/11/202320:01Lindsell Train Investment Trust plc761
28/3/202210:58Good News3
22/6/200721:38Forgive me for being thick1
21/6/200719:41Forgive me for being thick-
18/6/200116:32Down 98% - What happened???13

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Lindsell Train Investment (LTI) Top Chat Posts

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Posted at 02/12/2023 08:20 by Lindsell Train Investment Daily Update
Lindsell Train Investment Trust Plc is listed in the Trust,ex Ed,religious,charty sector of the London Stock Exchange with ticker LTI. The last closing price for Lindsell Train Investment was £875.
Lindsell Train Investment currently has 200,000 shares in issue. The market capitalisation of Lindsell Train Investment is £170,800,000.
Lindsell Train Investment has a price to earnings ratio (PE ratio) of -221.53.
This morning LTI shares opened at £880
Posted at 24/10/2023 15:59 by mozy123
I would start buying this if the share price wasn't £800 a pop.

A persistent discount may encourage a share split.
Posted at 24/10/2023 10:44 by steve3sandal
Yooouuu bought too soon, some of us bought at £1200/£1100/£1000 in L12M though my average is much lower.
Throwing out a few figures. The valuation of our holding in LTI was c£75M on 30 Sept which is LTI HY as it happens. Yes it’s dropped like a stone.
At recent LTI NAV of £964 the current share price around £800 should prompt some buying by the Board I think. In fact a little co. buyback wouldn’t go amiss if they’ve £8M cash.
We will see. Authority is held but never done this.
Trading volumes are modest. MMs won’t want to hold stock which has a falling knife chart so even small sellers will see the Bid evaporate.
RSI is 21 just now so I’m expecting a bounce from the round number they just hit.
Posted at 17/10/2023 06:58 by steve3sandal
So speculating that LT Ltd might only produce £37/38M dividends to LTI. We’ve still got 24.1% of this in LTI. That’s £9M but it was c £12M in the prior 2 years.
LTI Revenue was £14M with LTL dividend making up £12M of that. This time I’m guessing LTI Revenue might be £11M on the basis the rest of their portfolio does £2M again.
Take off LTL management fees which will be less than £2M but more than £1M I’m around £9M for our LTI dividend. Typically they say they have a policy to pay out 80% of Revenues, not sure how that works with IT 85%, but either way £9M is less than the £10.3M they distributed in Sept 2023 for £51.50.
An 85% distribution would be £8M which is £40 per share in Sept 24. They could and might do the full £9M or even too it up from revenue reserves though that’s not particularly sustainable or even desirable?
There is an inference in the March 23 accounts regarding valuing the dividend and it’s not impossible they top up from revenue reserves which were > £20M though they only had £8M in cash at YE.
My final guess is an LTI dividend between £40 and £51.50 in Sept 24.
Posted at 16/10/2023 17:26 by steve3sandal
Useless at formatting a table here so hopefully I can explain a guess of a 20% reduction in the dividend to LTI from the management Co in Jan 24.
Jan 22
TO 123M
Less admin* 44
PBT 81
Tax 15
Profit 65
Div 55 including 2 performance
* Directors Emoluments 27
other salaries and Soc sec etc 16
AUM a at YE 21.2Bn

Jan 23
TO 97M
Less admin* 30
PBT 67
Tax 13
Profit 54
Dividends 49
* Directors Emoluments 15
Other salaries and Soc Sec etc 15 ( Messrs L & T took full hit to maintain other salary expense at same level)
AUM at YE 18.6Bn down 2.5Bn

My extrapolation based on End Sept AUM £16.9Bn I think, say average will be down £2.5Bn with a flat Q4. Once you start writing these things you can’t save a draft to check.

Jan 24
TO 87 (might be higher than your guesses who knows?)
Less admin *30 ( same directors emoluments of 15, could they be flexed?)
PBT 57
Tax 14 (c25%)
Profit 43 (down from 54, say 20%)
Dividend 37/38 retaining what appears usual £5/6m?
That puts the dividend available to shareholders down about 25%.

Obviously LTI have other quoted investments which support the dividend but I suspect that the LTI receipts from LT could be down £10m. I’d have to look next at how that impacts us as LTI shareholders but I’m off about 5 minutes ago for my Monday beer.
Posted at 16/10/2023 16:13 by steve3sandal

Here are the Jan 23 Accounts for Lindsell Train. A significant fall in AUM led to a significant reduction in fee income. It looks like Messrs Lindsell and Train adjusted their emoluments more than pro rata down to £15m which enabled the dividend to themselves and our LTI to be held. Since Jan 23 the fall in AUM has continued and I’ll stick with ‘significantly’. The year is pretty well baked in if we think about average AUM fee income. So I’d guess the LT asset management dividend to LTI and the other 76/77% shareholders would have to come down significantly. I’ll guess first, 20% but I’ve not updated my spreadsheet. Welcome any sage views.

Sorry my attempt to link from Companies House via Tinyurl didn’t work. Anyway they are easily found as a public document and I have to admire the amount to tax they pay.
Posted at 14/8/2023 10:14 by spectoacc
Thanks those who encouraged me to take b/e & sell out again a while ago - @giltedge1 & @Flyers61 I think. Must be a feature of the vast share price but LTI seems unafraid to trade at daft spread levels, eg a trade at 863.72 today, vs close 931.00
Posted at 27/7/2023 16:05 by steve3sandal
Thanks ge1 good news today and evidently the underlying holdings must be operating well. I’ve always liked this collection and I imagine they will largely be more valuable in 5 years time. My gripe is that us LTI shareholders are not getting anything like fair value for our holding in LTL and I had partly invested on the basis that we eventually would. We’ve debated the directors approach to the valuation which also continues to ignore the large cash reserves usually reflected in Enterprise Values but ignored in setting sales/transfer to insiders. Train and Lindsell can do what they want with their shareholding but in my view it is unfair that the LTI Board consider it acceptable to sell down LTL and at the same time reflect that LTI income will be disadvantaged. They aren’t obviously doing the best thing fir LTI shareholders imo. A few people hold LTL shares but they aren’t having to sell them to the managers to feed the Profit Share Scheme. Why is LTI obliged?
Whilst I have made great returns from holding LTI I’m getting to the point where there is no edge to studying the metrics here. I’m thinking I’d be better off studying elsewhere. I took LTI from a few back to 10% of my portfolio at around the current share price so I’ve the option to rotate elsewhere. I find the share price usually goes up ahead of the XD as the share price is pregnant with £51. Those people selling at £984 are almost selling at £934. With an NAV of £1056 which is probably higher today, that looks daft. GLA.
Posted at 12/7/2023 12:52 by steve3sandal
Right I think I have been barking up the wrong tree. This Profit Share Scheme (PSS) might not be too bad if I have NOW got my head round it.
Lindsell Train Limited Jan 23 Accounts haven’t been published yet so some level of guesswork. The staff PSS operated last year 31/Jan/22 I presume at a level of 8% of Net Profit or on an earlier ad hoc basis. As a result of that I’m guessing certain staff bought 33 additional shares per the Accounts.
LTL Management Accounts to Jan 23 show an increase in Other Director and employee shareholdings by 125. These were sold from Treasury where there are now only 17 left.
From this current year the PSS will award at 15% of (post tax) net profit. All things being equal which they won’t be as FUM are down, I might expect the PSS to require certain staff to buy about twice as many shares, say 250.
Of this LTIT a will be required to sell a 25% of 250, and Messrs Lindsell and Train to sell 75% of 250. So LTIT would sell about 1% of its 6450 holding to employees at the prevailing 31 Jan YE directors valuation. Call it 63/64 shares at £12,000 around £750k which LTIT would presumably use to add to the listed holdings.
Importantly these PSS should not materially impact the net profit of LTL as these payments transfer future rewards from the founders and the 25% of fees Cap on salaries remains in place. For now. The Board could increase the Cap perhaps to 45% which would impact on the Dividend flow to LTIT. Increasing the Fees Salary cap to 45% would not impact their LTL share valuation as that already reflects the theoretical 45%.
If the cap stays at 25% then I need to move on, there are far more important things I need to to to get my own portfolio moving forwards instead of backwards.
I’ve always disagreed with the directors LTL valuation methodology and it seemed quite perverse to value a growing, high Gross Margin business on a modest PE, ignoring the Enterprise Value implied by the cash on the balance sheet, and a stonking dividend yield. However the valuation of holdings and strategies has reset and around £1000 LTIT is probably only fair value. I’m not selling or buying here. I’m not going to berate anyone for the PSS either!
Posted at 14/6/2023 06:23 by steve3sandal
I think the £55m will be pre tax so you should really take 25% off that for PE multiples. The £55m is partly a function of their earnings but then subject to what I would call a discretionary salary cost base. We can talk around the numbers all day but there is an intention to transfer part of our LTL holding to employees at a discretionary rates, now 15% profit share (8%) but could be any number. I will try and figure out what that looks like once LTL Accounts are available, usually September. Like someone said earlier they held LTI for a share in LTL and so did I.

I don’t think it is right to profit share transfer 75/25 ratio. I know that was the ownership ratio. Quoted LTI repeatedly stated this 25% holding is to participate in the success of LTL, later this 24.2% holding is to …. Never going to win a debate or vote with majority owners but I’ll probably fire off a very cross email to the Secretary. I can’t make a London AGM but perhaps they’ll take an email question? At the end of the day LTI economic interest in LTL is going to be reduced even if LTL isn’t successful as it’s 15% of profit in shares even if their investment performance is less than average.

I’m guilty of spending too much time on LTI and it turns out there is something of a value trap. Strategically I should probably tilt from this Co to FGT. Hmmm.
Posted at 15/5/2023 17:53 by steve3sandal
Whilst we wait for LT Jan 23 Accounts, and wait for LTI Mar 23 Accounts, which will be a while yet I’ve pasted the last 3 months directors valuations. Model 12m Net Profit and FUM is at least creeping up. I think this augurs well for another dividend of 5% in due course. Latest NAV £1088 should underpin recent buys.

As at 28 February 2023, LTL shares were valued at £13,154.54 per share, a decrease of 0.9% from the valuation of £13,270.62 per share as at the previous monthly valuation on 31 January 2023. LTL’s valuation is calculated with reference to a ratio of annualised notional net profits of £35.4m to Funds Under Management at LTL of £18.4 billion resulting in a percentage of funds under management of 1.90%.

As at 31 March 2023, LTL shares were valued at £13,212.40 per share, an increase of 0.4% from the valuation of £13,154.54 per share as at the previous monthly valuation on 28 February 2023. LTL’s valuation is calculated with reference to a ratio of annualised notional net profits of £35.6m to Funds Under Management at LTL of £18.5 billion resulting in a percentage of funds under management of 1.90%.

As at 30 April 2023, LTL shares were valued at £13,507.32 per share, an increase of 2.2% from the valuation of £13,212.40 per share as at the previous monthly valuation on 31 March 2023. LTL’s valuation is calculated with reference to a ratio of annualised notional net profits of £36.1m to Funds Under Management at LTL of £18.9 billion resulting in a percentage of funds under management of 1.90%.
Lindsell Train Investment share price data is direct from the London Stock Exchange

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