Kier Share Discussion Threads

[minerve 2] 21/3/2019 12:48

I think some investors are too emotional. If you can't stand the heat, keep out the kitchen.

[minerve 2] 21/3/2019 12:46

"Really sad to see UK civil engineering and outsourcing go from being a major export success, to being a complete dog and indeed the procurers in UK government departments wont care."

Well said, ditto everything else too.

[engineer66] 21/3/2019 12:01

I thought I got rid of these but realise I have some in young daughters account - such an embarrassment! Looking back most of the insightful comment have been zico's. Just compare with BOOT and you see the difference that management can make - more civil engineering, more commercial and less smoke and mirrors simply to pay the subbies and shore up the cash. New CEO needs to get a grip here, but fear a big bath on the WIP. Not selling daughters holding. The floor looks about 400p and I think this one could be broken up - sold to others that dont bid for UK government agency contracts that are repeatedly financial disasters. Might be wishful thinking. Really sad to see UK civil engineering and outsourcing go from being a major export success, to being a complete dog and indeed the procurers in UK government departments wont care.

[gettingrichslow] 21/3/2019 10:48

Dropping like a stone now. Advice to anyone still holding is to cut your losses and get out while you can. There will almost certainly be more bad news coming in my opinion. Good luck all.

[412069] 21/3/2019 10:31

Ditto.....
This is on its way to a couple of quid, this whole sector is terminal..

Try working in it. Smaller companies are the ones eventually bringing them down via not giving them the late payment cash fund they’ll always wanted.
And the so called clever BODS still haven’t cottoned on yet.

[brexitplus] 21/3/2019 10:30

Not just Kier. Recently reported in the FT that Ferrovial, the Spanish owner of Amey, took a €774 million writedown on Amey.

Stack of cards!!!

[zicopele] 21/3/2019 10:04

They are systematically overstating hundreds of millions WIP.

This WIP never will convert to cash.

Kier will need another cash injection within the year as margins bite further.

Clients do not want to pay and do not pay. I bet the legacy of May Gurney has not been addressed. Tens of millions lost on legacy rail jobs.

Then there is the A30 in Cornwall and the isle of Scilly, the Mersey Gateway.

I bet McNicholas is also a difficult acquisition..Main contractor buying a subcontractor and then imposing their cost base on the acquisition rarely works.

[gettingrichslow] 21/3/2019 09:54

Porsche, correct, I've been saying the same for months, this whole sector is in big trouble.

[porsche1945] 21/3/2019 09:53

This is on its way to a couple of quid, this whole sector is terminal

[eriktherock] 20/3/2019 20:45

It's a buy at around 412ish but when directors are blaming each other for the blame culture it's a worry.

[eriktherock] 20/3/2019 20:42

I remember when I joined the Business back in 2016 with the share price around thirteen quid one of the group board directors was ramping the stock to the employees ha

[marksp2011] 20/3/2019 19:37

i have reread the announcement

it seems that lying and dissembling comes naturally to this company

Developments & Housing outlook

The Property business' forward sold strategy has supported a good performance in the period and the business remains on course to deliver its FY19 financial targets. In Residential, although the business' sales rates remain good, the Group's principal focus in the second half of the financial year will be to deliver the required rate of unit completions, with an increasing number of sites being managed through joint ventures. In the Housing Maintenance business, the focus on streamlining the business and operational efficiency will continue.

Elsewhere you discover that there is a bucket load of cash tied up in housing projects they didn't complete AND

Other non-underlying costs
Provision relating to Broadmoor Hospital redevelopment
project (25.0) - Sudden release just before the results
Provision relating to Environmental Waste contract (26.0) - New news to me

So there wasn't enough money in the business to provision the bad contracts hence the Rights Issue

i am now struggling to work out WTF kier is doing for a business. It is obviously out of control

[gettingrichslow] 20/3/2019 16:51

Absolutely right chopp1. And it's going to be more than 'a few' that go wrong realistically isn't it. Just look at the evidence from the last 5 years!

[chopp1] 20/3/2019 16:38

Minerva 2. I think you are being far too optimistic. As an ex FD of a sizeable construction company,I can see from the numbers just how bad it is.

The problem is is that the government and I am including local gov in that, want something for nothing. They have to understand that if they keep squeezing pricing and poor payment terms on their outsourced companies, they will eventually force them under. Carillion and Interserve are great examples. They need to wake up because if they have to take this stuff back in house they will soon get a massive shock as to how much it will cost the taxpayer.Despite what Corbyn and his cronies say, successive governments have done very well out of competitive outsourcing. But then of course he would want everything controlled under a bentralised communist state! And £1bn of contracts is only as good as their quality. I bet most of these are at less than 5% margin and you only need a few of those to go wrong and you are in the proverbial do dah!

[gettingrichslow] 20/3/2019 16:20

ElCap, try reading the posts a bit more carefully you donut! I've been warning others not to invest in this basket case for months. How do you get through a day when you can't even read or write properly??

[minerve 2] 20/3/2019 16:12

chopp1

Some of the adverse movements in working capital were a reason for the rights issue in the first place! Some will remain, some will reverse. A 5% swing in the wrong direction is expected to return to neutral by year end with £180M of the rights issue eventually appearing as a reduction on the net balance.

On the positive side some of these new criteria set by the government and local government will exclude some competition and put forward Kier as a leading contender.

£1Bn worth of contracts secured since 1st December can't be ignored.

[elcapital2018] 20/3/2019 15:48

youu losing again GRS?

[gettingrichslow] 20/3/2019 15:40

In freefall now. Over 11%.

[chopp1] 20/3/2019 15:36

In fact the decrease in trade payables was only £48m of the £230m movement in wc balances.

[zicopele] 20/3/2019 14:59

The market is objective. This company was £11 and not too long ago.

That money was swallowed by its obligations.

Bad times ahead.

[gettingrichslow] 20/3/2019 14:15

Zico is merely being objective. Sky News Business were far more negative just now. This company is in big trouble in a troubled sector.

[latics2] 20/3/2019 13:59

I wonder if Zico is a dsgruntled ex employee ? He always has a negative comment to make.

[chopp1] 20/3/2019 13:55

It isn’t just creditors that caused the adverse wc performance. Debtors, WIP and long term contract balances were also negative.

[porsche1945] 20/3/2019 13:53

Another " Woodford Winner " circling the pan. Makes the brexit sxxtshow look well run.