Imagination Technologies Share Discussion Threads

[blueteam] 25/9/2017 07:59

going to see shorters trying to close, may well go above the offer today.

[amt] 25/9/2017 07:23

Interesting mips only worth 65m. Didnt they pay over 100m originally.
So after sale of ARM CSR and now IMG what has uk got left Sage Xaar and IQE. Should help the share price of these companies.

[umitw] 25/9/2017 07:11

Well done holders, is it 192 per share?

[hammerd2] 25/9/2017 06:31

borromini you can repost that as many times as you like but it doesn't change the (publicly known) facts that Apple can claim what they like (e.g. A Series contain 'Apple designed CPU' but they still pay ARM) but that doesn't mean the Apple designed GPU in A11 doesn't contain any IMG IP.

Unless Apple have specifically told IMG in advance that A11 will not yield the royalties expected from the various IP blocks IMG expect from previous iterations then I don't see how IMG can really proceed - certainly not with import bans, etc - unless as Ian says the dispute resolution process unearthed stuff. But IMG always claimed Apple had basically ignored that process.

Well, at least IMG got interesting again. Certainly for CB AH as he is apparently set to pocket £2.8m !! Nice work if you can get it huh ?

[twatcher] 25/9/2017 00:01

As Ken has alluded, just because they say "designed by Apple", that of itsself doesn't mean they are publicly stating they have designed out IMG. Marketing and Engineering are two different things. It did however *SOUND* like they wanted people to beleive that, or that was Apple demonstrating that their graphics team have become much more prominent.

I'm out of touch with the exact timeline of payments from Apple. But one assumes there is only grounds for a case if Apple has already starting changing what it is paying to IMG, or have formally told them that A11 will have a reduced payment and IMG are contesting that they are not getting what they should be.

Chip payments wouldn't be being seen by IMG yet. It's possible Apple have reduced ongoing licensing in the last quarter in line with saying their new design hasn't used some IMG design elements (or none).

Maybe what Apple is really doing has become more apparent as a result of the arbitration process that was triggered by IMG, and IMG can sue on the basis of Apples evidence to that ?

[borromini1] 24/9/2017 23:00

H2 - repost from this morning ...

Apple claim first Apple designed GPU in A11 bionic chip included in iPhone 8. Apple start selling iPhone 8 on Friday 22 September 2017, the product with the alleged IMG IP infringement. IMG start legal proceedings against Apple on Monday 25 September 2017? One thing about the Chuckle Brothers is a certain decisiveness in their actions, lets see how quickly they progress towards a UK iPhone 8 import ban and global damages award against Apple.

IMG engaged Clifford Chance back in June, so 3 months to formulate the strategy and prepare the legal action. CC won't be intimidated by anyone Apple can throw at them.



Vote NO to MIPS sale and NO to acquisition offer until IMG shareholders get clarity on key value issues.

[jamesrowe] 24/9/2017 22:48

The only thing that I can think of is that didn't they publicly announce in the recent presentations on the new iPhone that it was the 1st new 100% Apple designed processor, was based on tile-based deferred rendering and didn't contain any IMG IP?? I also read on one of the links posted above that the TBDR is 'visible' in the Metal API/drivers.

Sounds a bit tenuous but I guess that it could hinge on whether publicly stating that it is 100% Apple and not acknowledging IMG constitutes deliberate infringement if it can be shown to contain IMG IP even if they had not yet confirmed that they have stopped paying royaltiles to IMG???

[hammerd2] 24/9/2017 21:55

'Canyon Bridges’ advisers have already had early conversations with Government officials prior to the deal being announced, which Mr Bingham said had been “very encouraging”. The company also briefed Imagination’s top shareholders, including Baillie Gifford and Standard Life Aberdeen, ahead of announcing the deal.'

So that's at least 24% already onboard. They're 1/3 of the way there.

Hopefully they've got eyes on another stock many of us have interests in too ⚒⚒

[borromini1] 24/9/2017 21:54

Shrimper2 - If this was the US of A you and others would be contemplating a class action against Apple, something similar may yet still happen here, fingers crossed! Keep in touch.

[twatcher] 24/9/2017 21:48

Ken, liked your animated gif :)

I'm pleasantly surprised that there was no pre-announcement share price move, this announcement was clearly held very close.

Given the time that had passed since IMG put the place up for sale, it was starting to look possible that there wasn't going to be a buyer at any sensible price. So a definite offer of £1.82 puts shareholders in a far better place than they were on Friday morning. Whether or not £1.82 or perhaps slightly more is good, depends entirely on whether you were a holder on the day that Apple announced the divorce.

6 years and 28693 posts later in this thread I started (with the previous IMG thread I started amassing around 20K posts too), I'm sure like many long termers, it doesn't surprise me at all that even as the end of the road approaches, it appears likely that there will be another twist or two yet.

[shrimper2] 24/9/2017 20:49

If Apple are eventually found to be guilty of wrongdoing and forced down the road to pay some form of compensation to IMG shareholders then not much comfort to long term holders like myself who bailed out after the big announcement of IMG losing Apple as a customer going forward and who had held for many years prior. If compensation is forthcoming it feels as if it should be based on those IMG shareholders who had holdings on the day of the announcement as it was then that the value of the Company was adversely affected.
Anyway Good luck to all those who are left I wish you well my holding is non existant now and hard to believe that a Company that had so much potential ended up with so many issues since around the purchase of MIPS

[tombelfast] 24/9/2017 20:01

One of the reasons that I believe imagination has stayed quite until now is that if imagination had kicked off about infringements to its patents, then apple could in theory completely stop any payments to imagination until things are clarified,and imagination really couldn't afford that without a wealthy bidders back-up.

Apple have done that before, withholding payments if there's a problem with a supplier. And in imaginations case that would have been commercial suicide.
But now the balance of power has shifted into imaginations boardroom/ cayon bridges
And imagination would unanimously and naturally accept cayon bridges cheeky reasonably offer, just to flush out apples true intentions or any other hidden offers,and knowing cayon bridges is there insurance policy , I said it before Apple including its own turnover in imagination can reluctantly justify a takeout offer of over a billion pounds Stirling in a bidding war against cayon bridges, but I wouldn't gamble on that one yet.as cayon bridges probably couldn't justify that price at all, so in between £550million and 1billion lies imaginations true value.

All in my humble opinion

[bukko] 24/9/2017 19:10

“But while Imagination initially complained that Apple hadn't 'proven that it wasn't infringing' its IP this spring, it does NOT now appear to be continuing any claim that Apple's new GPU uses any unlicensed PowerVR technology, and instead sold itself off at a huge discount after losing Apple's business.”

By Daniel Dilger, Normally an excellent (for) Apple fan poster, seems to be missing out on the full picture? And the wider implications. Good, in for a shock!

(NOT in caps by me for emphasis.)

[jamesrowe] 24/9/2017 19:10

You are right about complicating it. :-) It is probably a really clever ploy by IMG & their advisers since it could sustain the share price on the promise of a possible divident whilst they wait for a potential counter bid to come in at at least 10% above that pricee!

[hammerd2] 24/9/2017 18:50

James, the bid is about 30% above the average price since the bid was announced so pretty standard. You're right though it does leave a nice little space for a cheeky 10% eh ??

I'm probably not going all the way with this, I bought for a bid and it's finally come, and true to form IMG managed to complicate it !!! I'll give it a week or so probably and see what gets shaken out - should be great fun but I have a couple of deals needing paying for or closing mid October.

Can't wait til 8am.......

[jamesrowe] 24/9/2017 18:34

It seems a big coincidence that the sale to CB happened to be announced on the day that the share price reached its second lowest point since the sale was announced. Are bidders allowed to pay shorters to short the price in order to get a better deal or is this illegal?

Another coincidence is that the price of 182 just happens to be almost exactly 10% below the nice round number of 200p per share. Is CB keeping its powder dry expecting to have to fork out an additional 10% to get the bid past some major shareholders?

[tombelfast] 24/9/2017 16:32

It's my belief and understanding that canyon bridges has had informal communication
With Teresa Mays goverment officials, about any obstacles to a takeover/rescue of imagination, considering the possible job losses and future trade deals with China ,the understanding from reading between the lines and snippets of information in the press , I believe there will be no objection to China's offer for imagination other than strict written confirmation and enforceable undertakings given to the uk goverment, future investments and trade deals from china is much more important than imaginations ownership by china, there is really no justifiable concerns other than china wants to buy everything on plant earth.and has the funds to do that,

You have apple hoarding $261 billion and should be employing that money to invest like China. So let's see apple spend some of the money making us a little richer.

If apple don't bid, it would be such a stupid decision. Time will tell.I'm really looking forward to this unfolding.

[life of crime] 24/9/2017 16:00

Sweenoid, I am not so sure on the settlement aspect. They could take Apple to court but it is an expensive business and not always certain. I would love to see Apple given a good kicking given their monopolistic behaviour, but given CB said on Friday they want to push IMG IP into the Asian, ie Chinese, market then their future interest seems to lie elsewhere.

A quick and dirty share of $200M might suit CB as much as IMG investors so all sides can move on. I certainly cannot see Apple exceeding CBs $740M bid with an offer of their own, but a much lower out of court deal could save them aggravation legally and reputationally.

Willoicc, if Theresa May had negotiated the deal she would have accepted 40% below the closing price on Friday!

[willoicc] 24/9/2017 15:54

Did Teresa May negotiate this deal?

[sweenoid] 24/9/2017 15:49

LOC - 1st point correct , the quote in The Sunday Times was seemingly given in response to their article on Vince Cable's issues with the takeover

Imagination’s future had been shrouded in uncertainty since April when Apple, its largest customer, revealed it would phase out use of the company’s graphics technology in future iPhones and iPads. The move was a “body blow”, chief executive Andrew Heath told The Sunday Times, leading to a crash in the share price.

Imagination is now pursuing a legal claim against Apple, arguing that the Silicon Valley giant will be unable to develop its own graphics chips in-house without infringing its patents. Apple claims that it would not owe any patent royalties.

The whole article 'suggests' to me at least those comments were made THIS weekend- certainly IMG has never before directly said it was issuing legal proceedings, rather they were going down the 'Gentlemen's route of arbitration' .....and pleading ...and almost begging no doubt- remember it is documented that original questions and queries went unanswered by Apple.

I don't think Canyon would accept a one-off payment ....unless it was huge and if that's the case it will come after 60 days you can be sure so that normal investors won't see sight of it ;-)
S

[life of crime] 24/9/2017 15:31

Hammered, the ST said they had spoken to AH so presumably the legal quote is current. As sweenoid says, an official clarification would be good. If they are taking legal action perhaps it's to force Apple to settle within the 60 day period set out on Friday.

I am not expecting Apple to make a counter bid, but an offer of, say, $100-$200M to make IMG go away could be tempting for them. Then they can infringe IMG's existing IP to their hearts content!

[trinity] 24/9/2017 15:29

If Apple does not settle within a specific time period ( 60 days is mentioned but can be prolonged slightly) then existing shareholders will miss out on a future compensation agreed with Apple. It is unreasonable to expect a settlement to be reached within a short period of time especially for such complex IP disputes. The fact that IMG and Canyon have introduced this measure in the acquisition announcement maybe an indication that a settlement with Apple is already in progress and it is the amount that is being negotiated. Is that far fetched?

[willoicc] 24/9/2017 15:27

The court case will be possible because the bidders will finance it. That is why they get 50%.

Is the court case in UK or USA. If it is in USA I would not bet on IMG success.

Just look at what happened to BP in US courts. Forced to pay out billions for claims that were allegedly highly doubtful.