Goldplat Share Discussion Threads

[kimboy2] 12/4/2017 21:23

I suspect that the problem is that the throughput has decreased because of verious technical problems, strikes and trust issues and that they have not been able to cut their costs appropriately.

It takes some doing to in effect bust it though. It is not as if it has all the risks of being an actual mining company.

Anyway hopefully RR is a thing of the past other than than the legal proceedings.

[sea7] 12/4/2017 20:41

kb,

this feature on rand refinery maybe nearly seven years old, however, it provides an insight into where their profitability lay and may still do so.



excerpt.

"The company has long term and loyal relationships with its suppliers, but while refining and fabrication may provide the bulk of turnover, the impression is that it is the financial segment that determines the level of profitability.

We have a big treasury function he continued. We buy gold from the mines and immediately sell it on through back to back transactions. We never actually own the gold we process; we handle it on others behalf. We charge refining fees and agents premiums.

............................

I wonder, if they offered hedging for customers as well and got badly burned in the 2013-2015 bear market.

[qazwsxedc69] 12/4/2017 09:45

What historic figures would they be - the ones where you were buying above 15p?

Or the ones where you were telling everyone to sell at the lower end of 2p?

I wonder if in the history of the ENTIRE site, across ALL BBs here, there has ever been a bigger disparity between a single poster's comments, and the performance of the share price.

I think you have a genuine shout for being the single biggest idiot on ADVFN.

[danielmiller1] 11/4/2017 22:46

Bot boy you asked or rather stated...the question is what is H2/17 cash flow like.

To answer I would have to look at historic figures and they are always questionable with GDP........hence my reply......I prefer to see the chickens after they have hatched.

[kimboy2] 11/4/2017 14:37

If you don't trust their numbers why would you wait for them to 'put them on the table'.

[danielmiller1] 11/4/2017 14:36

Your not wasting your time Botboy but I have learnt that you can't trust GDP's figures so I would prefer to wait until they put them on the table!,

[kimboy2] 11/4/2017 13:52

Well with Dan, DD4 and Russman I am certain I am wasting my time but the question is what is H2/17 cash flow like.

There are reasons why H2 will be substantially better;
1. £1m cash flow improvement in Kili during half
2. £3.5m cash flow from Ghana production held up by license which increased inventories in H1/17.
3. Increased production at Ghana and South Africa will increase operating profit beyond H1/17.
4. Capex in H1 of £1.2m reduced to £0.5m in H2.

Then there is a $2m loan. Plenty of firepower to invest in material from South America, finish stage 2 at Kili, build the elution plant at Ghana and stage 3 if they want to.

Anyway we shall soon find out in the TS.

[danielmiller1] 11/4/2017 13:39

Read back and you will see that Dan wrote to Visausage when he was playing at being a CEO and told him that he and GDP were not fit and proper to hold the RGA. As Dan saw it if they could not manage their contracts how could the manage the raw materials in their custody.

Needless to say Dan never did get a reply.

But what the hell I am sure the Botboy and the Stupid one will sort it all out.

Meanwhile it keeps emerging that GDP is a small company with persistent big problems

[discodave4] 11/4/2017 13:30

Can't see anything on Goldplats current RGA certification.Cash flow -£1.2m H1, no wonder they needed the loan......oh well.DD

[russman] 11/4/2017 12:26

If there is not a cashflow problem now; there is one appearing soon.

[kimboy2] 11/4/2017 11:28

Well they will have lost another tonne with GDP.

[sea7] 11/4/2017 11:15

from the article I posted earlier, which is from 2013..

The Rand Refinery is probably the most modern and efficient refinery in the world and it can handle about a 1 000 tons per year, but with the country’s declining gold production it probably only gets 190 tons per year,” he told Moneyweb.

[kimboy2] 11/4/2017 11:13

A fairly consistent story.

I am not sure why it is losing money but there was a reference in one of the AR's to operational inefficiencies. It would seem that RR is operating a long way below capacity.

It may be that since they had a couple of tonnes of gold nicked that confidence in the operation has fallen off a cliff.

[sea7] 11/4/2017 11:09

I can find no comments as yet, to whether anyone has actually converted their share to equity yet.

[sea7] 11/4/2017 11:06

HARMONY,



From note 19b trade and other receivables,

i) During 2015, Rand Refinery drew down on the facility provided by its shareholders. Harmony's portion of the shareholder's loan was R120 million (US$10 million). As the loan is considered to be part of the net investment in associate, Harmony's share of Rand Refinery's losses of R18 million (US$1.2 million) was recorded against the loan. An additional provision of R25 million (US$1.6 million) (2015: R15 million (US$1.2 million)) was provided for. The loan is due during December 2016. Refer to note 20 for more details.

[sea7] 11/4/2017 10:52

gold fields




The maximum commitment of Gold Fields Operations Limited (“GFO”), a subsidiary of
Gold Fields Limited, is R37.3 million (US$3.2 million).


In December 2014, GFO advanced R32.0 million (US$3.0 million) to Rand Refinery in terms of the above Facility. The investment in Rand Refinery, as well as the above loan, was written down to Rnil, resulting in a total impairment of R44.9 million (US$4.1 million).

...........

In other words, money loaned and gone, never to be repaid.

[kimboy2] 11/4/2017 10:25

If the loans have been written down I would presume that the equity is worthless.

[sea7] 11/4/2017 10:21

Back in 2013..



He said the refinery, which had a very good track record and has been advertising itself to countries all over the world, might be refining gold for other countries. “I would guess that you are seeing a billion dollars of gold coming in, but you will probably see that billion dollars of gold going out again in a month or two,” he said.

.....................................

If they are bringing in quantities like this, refining it and sending it back out, it is no wonder bits go missing here and there!!!

[sea7] 11/4/2017 10:17

Rands issues went further back as well kb.

In july 2014, AngloGold said...

AngloGold Ashanti owns a 42.41% stake in the Rand Refinery and accounts for it using the equity accounting method as an associate. AngloGold Ashanti expects to make a provision in its accounts for $51m, which will impact second quarter earnings scheduled for release on August 11.

[kimboy2] 11/4/2017 09:46

The loan provided to RR by Anglo and the rest was convertible in 2 years and done July 2014. I haven't seen any reports that it has been and shareholdings in RR adjusted.

I presume that it needed to be convertible to maintain a positive net worth in RR to maintain LBMA.

It would be interesting to know what is going on at RR. Perhaps with a court case going on we may find out. I get the impression that if negotiations have completely broken down then we will get the detailed GDP view of the matter. Perhaps in the next TU.

[sea7] 11/4/2017 09:42

Yep, it is a two way street DD, Goldplat should also be ensuring that the refinery's certification is upto date as part of their due diligence processes, for RGA.

Like all paper trails and bureaucracy, it sooner or later slips until either an audit picks it up or something goes wrong.

[sea7] 11/4/2017 09:40

Rand refinery is also a referee in assaying disputes.

[discodave4] 11/4/2017 09:32

One assumes that:a) RR being one of only five international LBMA referees, and the only one in the Southern Hemisphere, that LBMA status is a foregone conclusion, particularly as these are refiners appointed by the LBMA to assist in: technical assessment of applicants, monitoring of refiners on the list and providing technical advice.b) That if RR are not LBMA certificated then by partnering default, RR are strategic partners with Goldplat Recovery (GPL), then it follows that Goldplat's responsible gold certification becomes null and void, chain of custody requirements are not met in full. Is GPL's responsible gold cert. up to date?.DD

[sea7] 11/4/2017 09:09

looks like they made a bit of an effort... 2015 report..