Finsbury Food Share Discussion Threads

[bonio10000] 05/8/2011 08:20

i guess the only saving grace is the frown on the face of the option holders.

[aleman] 04/8/2011 11:33

bonio -yes.. But struggling without pc and laptops after we were hit by lightening. Can't believe we have sellers here after update. Posting from phone.

[boffster] 04/8/2011 09:54

Never any shortage of thick muppets around!

[aleman] 02/8/2011 15:23

If turnover is up, debt is falling and earnings are in line with expectations, surely all a company on p/e of 3 needs is a little publicity after the numbers are confirmed in the results. (Oh, and banking facilities extended.)

[jpjp100] 02/8/2011 12:11

I am still of the opinion that something that might have a significant positive impact on the share price anytime soon is hanging about.

The massively forward weighting vesting of the Directors' options plan is the main thing that makes me think this.

Even if something is hanging about, there is no certainty that it will come to fruition. It might go away (or maybe even already has gone away, I simply don't know).

Of course, I could very easily be wrong on this: Once the options have vested, they are good to exercise at 20.5p right out until 30 Oct 2016.

[aleman] 02/8/2011 11:50

Such big trades can be reported up to 3 days late. Perhaps they explain the drop this time last Thursday when the trades at the time didn't seem to account for it.

[19wizard] 02/8/2011 11:39

Some big selling today.Does not look quite so rosy now.My hopes are fading for a bid from a couple of the big guns.

[aleman] 01/8/2011 12:22

Dividend still forecast for next year. Current year p/e 3.2, falling to 2.9 in 2012. Prospective yield 6.3%.

Panmure Gordon BUY 29 Jul 2011
2010 5.39 7.04 - 168.00
2011 5.86 7.47 - 190.00
2012 6.40 8.26 1.50 194.00

Should be interesting if Shares runs these numbers this week or the week ahead of the results. They have a habit of tipping shares before results rather than covering actual numbers the following week. I'm expecting further coverage after last week's story.

Interestingly, PG have upped turnover forecasts by about 12% but left profits and earnings the same. Don' t they believe the company will recover any more costs increases from recent commodities spikes?

[aleman] 28/7/2011 14:53

Shares Mag is doing a series of weekly regional share picks. Finsbury is one of 3 picked for Wales this week. It is down as a speculative buy. Their print deadline is usually Tueday lunchtime so you would thought they could have included the update news but they didn't so there is little specific in the tip. This means there is a reasonable chance of follow up coverage next week and/or around results. The shares ought to go up with better coverage as there has been precious little of late.

[boffster] 28/7/2011 14:27

Can't be any stock about. Any reasonable buy or sell seems to move the price.

[jpjp100] 27/7/2011 14:45

I would have been very surprised if the options scheme was announced without it having been OK'd by the most significant shareholders - you can't get away with just springing that sort of thing on them nowadays!

Rather than close a factory, I'd rather see them sell more stuff and run the factories full. Keep banging in the licensed products, keep landing the own label deals etc.

Let other companies deal with the pain and aggro of closing the excess capacity that is still surely present in the cake market.

[boffster] 27/7/2011 14:27

Possibly room for further consolidation markt, but you have to bear in mind that FIF's factories are dotted around all over the place and they don't all make the same product. Also if you were to close one down and move elsewhere you would likely lose 90% of the staff, and all of the skill and experience built up.

[boffster] 27/7/2011 14:15

After speaking to Mr.Duffy last week it would appear Mr.Lightbody is in favour, if he isn't then of course he'll vote against but as I understand it he is on the remuneration committee

[markt] 27/7/2011 13:52

...I think you've Aleman's vote.....and mine....

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we dont know if Mr Lightbody agrees...or do does the board have to vote on what the remuner. committee decides before issued ?
..and perhaps the board can ignore Mr L. if majority of board is in favour...
but
one assumes that all done with board and Mr L in favour...

I think I see it as a reward or pat on the back for the performance achieved.....Aleman calcs. that T/O up 20% in last 6 months....vs previous year I guess....I havent checked but clearly the T/O is really motoring....

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to help the profit margin.....close or sell a production facility and move production to other site ?....noting that new production kit has been bought in previous years....
with numerous sites surely there is scope to combine 1 or 2 , no ?
(although one off costs if any labour reduction.....balanced by any site sale....)
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Cost value of sites is around 50M or so if I recall....cost prices then partly depreciated ....a lot of tang. assetts at cost price for a 12-13M cap. company.....and 190M of turnover !!

[greg the grinch] 27/7/2011 13:34

I hold fif

options at 20p.............ffs........where is the incentive.

The share price is pretty much a one way bet to 30p from here so why not have the options set at 40p?

Then there would be a long term incentive and not one to sell into the expected rally.

Its not an incentive its just easy money.

[boffster] 27/7/2011 13:07

Presumably though the directors have not already been granted approval to issue such a large number of shares though?

Anyway, shareholders can put forward any resolution they like if they have sufficient numbers. However with Mr. Lightbody having such a large interest and also one of the other directors being a chair of another large shareholders, I feel the chances of being able to overturn anything are not good. I take a bit of solace from the fact that Mr. Lightbody is obviously supportive of this while not being a beneficiary himself.

[aleman] 27/7/2011 12:58

I think "unapproved" has to do with how they are taxed by the inland revenue.

[boffster] 27/7/2011 12:52

You will note that the majority of these options are part of an 'unapproved' plan so I would assume from that they require shareholder approval.

[aleman] 27/7/2011 12:45

I should add that, from memory, I think 15% crystallise at under 30p. There are actually more options. It just shows how they keep granting more as the price falls.

You can't vote against the options. You can vote against the remuneration report - but it isn't binding. You can vote against the remuneration committee members when they come up for reelection and any other directors you may feel are involved in trying to take more than their fair share off the owners of the business or manipulating the share price to get the best out of options and bonus schemes.

[markt] 27/7/2011 12:41

...I was thinking about the options last week....and wasnt sure if they were a pat on the back for the directors ....or a SOS due to problems...

the positive RNS and year end results in the back with expectations met and massive increase in turnover in the 2nd half (20% I think Mr Aleman has calculcated for us !) makes me feel that the options are a bat on the back for a job well done...and to keep it going...

the 2 main directors have worked together for some years incl. at Golden Wonder.....so want to make sure they keep dedicated I guess....(and many of the old options were at 60p, 80p etc....so fair enough to replace them even though 85p Lightbody share issue shareholders may wince.....

the FD director's share buy of 100k pounds a few days before this last announcement looks a bit ...OTT....(perhaps made the transaction in his coffee break while calculating the years results !...or maybe just after !)
...and that 1/2 of options can be exercised by end of Sept looks very strange...only x weeks away....does not tie directors to the company or inventivise future performance imo...I assume they could sell on 1st Oct (1/2 of new options package) and say cheerio....but of course wouldnt...

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At least 1 person wanted to vote against the new options...I didnt see any invitation for voting on the options.....unless voted against the annual report as protest...

with the good results...and share price increase....overall, probably be few votes against anything...

[aleman] 27/7/2011 12:32

They're paid to be focussed on the business. I don't like options or anything that encourages share price manipulation, like some bonus schemes, at all. What if I want to sell at the same time as they want the share price down? I do believe in simple share awards that have to be held long term before selling to put them in the same boat as other shareholders. Constantly granting lower and lower options as the share price falls does not make them suffer like we do if they mess up. They can then push the shares down and end up a with a big chunk of the company when we haven't even got our investment back. They should get the same downside risk we get, not just the upside. I've been ripped off enough to not give directors the benefit of the doubt.

Giving them 15% of the company in options seems too generous. If it's not so generous because the vesting terms are demanding, they should say so. I'll be voting against unless I can get information that will persuade me otherwise. Some other companies put vesting information in their reports. We'll see what Finsbury have to say in theirs in a few months.

[jpjp100] 27/7/2011 12:27

because I want the management to be focussed on running the business, not feeling that they are not being properly rewarded and being potentially distracted by private equity jobs etc.

[boffster] 27/7/2011 12:24

JP, how can you be supportive of a scheme in which you don't know the details?