Finsbury Food Share Discussion Threads

[boffster] 12/7/2011 15:21

I have taken a few more. Oddly not reported yet

[aleman] 12/7/2011 15:05

Thorntons and Premier Foods were hit by the warm dry weather and Royal wedding - precisely the factors that should boost FIF. People ate more salads, sandwiches, biscuits and cakes and barbied earlier than normal - not good for chocolate sales in malls or pies and hot traditional dinners.



The Royal Wedding helped fuel alcohol sales, particularly Champagne, while other sparkling wines and party food also flew off the shelves. The hottest April on record also tempted shoppers to splash out on salads, soft fruit, barbecue foods and ice-cream.

[markt] 12/7/2011 14:53

maybe the vesting hurdle is just that the company keeps going ?!...who knows

maybe trade is bad.....wheat/flour prices have been high...I think sugar is up....gas is up by big amount recently I think...delivery fuel costs are up
and high street retail is having hard time....incl Thorntons....
and FIF produce for Thortons so one expects that trade to have fallen (Thortons are closing shops 'cause sales and profits are down)
sterling has fallen....so costs of imported goods will have gone up I assume, eg. sugar

(any risks of yet another FIF RNS..as in the past....' we are in dialogue with customers regarding recovering some of the increased costs' !!)

...any risk that sales of cakes will fall as a result ??...and cakes is a large part of the turnover I think

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the director that took shares as part of salary...perhaps only because he also received a massive package of millions of share options.....risk/reward....
maybe he would not have bought 1 single FIF share unless the share options package was put in front of his nose...

maybe the remuneration committee see no other way to try to get perf. out of FIF....otherwise not been able to get the EPS up much over the last few years imo...or get the market to take much interest in the shares...1/4tr of the price when Lightbody was bought, massive cash raising.
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Doesnt FIF normally have a new CEO every year ? no change this year ?!
Dave Brooks in 2008, then Mr Lightbody, then Mr Duffy

if any director is now 'moved out'....one assumes that they will need a large compensation payment if their options are lost.....

(one of the past director was quite expensive when he left I recall)

[boffster] 12/7/2011 14:51

Between them they will make over £50,000 for every penny rise! Way, way too much. Deliver first, reward later. It doesnt sound to me like there are many hurdles since half of them are exercisable immediately

[jpjp100] 12/7/2011 14:39

Working on the basis that for the options to vest, there needs to be a decent improvement in the share price (I am making an educated assumption here: the share price has stayed steady so no institutions are clamouring to get out on the back of the announcement for instance)... I think its very easy for the board to defend granting options at the current market price.

If the hurdle to vesting is only small, that would be a different story so, until I know what the vesting hurdle is, I will say that I am, broadly, in favour.

[boffster] 12/7/2011 13:49

"I am very disappointed with the company's announcement this morning regarding the grant of options. I would like to know how the board feels justified in granting such a large number of options (amounting to over 10% of the share capital) at an exercise price at no premium to the current market price.

This comes as a slap in the face to investors who have seen the value of their shares slashed and the dividend suspended. I also note that not one of the directors has bought shares on the open market for 2 years or more. In my opinion this is no time for directors to be granting themselves generous awards when they have failed to deliver."

[aleman] 12/7/2011 11:34

Boffster - I might be able to go.

[aleman] 12/7/2011 11:28

Too many shares at too low a price over too short a time frame. I've been victim of this too many times not to see it as too generous. It would have been happy if it had been 10% to all employees over 10 years. Why shouldn't all employees be treated pro rata? It's wrong for directors to come to a company and be set up to retire if they want after 3-5 years, unless they are risking their own money like me. They don't have the downside with options so the upside shouldn't be so generous. Their interests should be aligned with shareholders, not much better than theirs.

(I would happily give employees around 10% of the company pro rata, tied in for the long term. The convoluted. opaque and arbitrary, options, performance awards and bonus schemes awarded to greedy directors these days are a disgrace when shareholders and workers have suffered so much,)

[jpjp100] 12/7/2011 11:25

So the Directors have given themselves the option to buy at, essentially, today's price into the future. They only profit from any upside from now. That's OK by me

I would rather have seem them buy that many shares on the market today, but I don't begrudge them the chance to participate in any value they deliver to shareholders with less risk than 'ordinary shareholders'

I am more interested in the conditions under which the options would vest and will continue to be intrigued as to why they chose to front load the percentage that vest to, essentially, now. What do they think is going to happen between now and the prelims?

[spaceparallax] 12/7/2011 11:12

I certainly don't agree with such non-incentivised options; but the buys, so long as taken in direct lieu of salary, I have no problem with.

[jpjp100] 12/7/2011 11:03

How can you tell if the LTIP is too generous or not without knowing the conditions that need to be met for the shares to vest?

The only negative I can see in the agreement is that the LTIP is pretty front end loaded: half the options can vest prior to Sep 11 with remnants of the balance hanging on to 2016.

That strikes me as the Board giving themselves a bit of extra potential share if, for instance, FIF is taken private in the summer, or if a bid is received... Neither of which scenarios could come as a complete surprise I suppose

[boffster] 12/7/2011 10:43

Angry e-mail being sent to them later. I will be attending the AGM, anyone else going?

Anyone else like to form a small shareholder's committee with me?

[aleman] 12/7/2011 10:35

Far too generous. I'll be voting against the remuneration report and the non-executives on the committee who should be watching out for external shareholders' interests. I've been doing it in 3/4 of cases this year. Directors generally are just getting far too greedy and practically stealing the company off existing shareholders over a period of 5 to 10 years. That is not the way it is supposeed to work.

[boffster] 12/7/2011 10:35

P114

Individual limits
No option shall be granted to a person where such grant would result in the aggregate market value, on the
date of acquisition, of all the shares which he may acquire on the exercise of any option granted to him
under the Plan and other approved share option plans adopted by the Company or an associated company,
exceeding £30,000.

[boffster] 12/7/2011 10:08

Anyone the wiser about this 'unapproved' plan? I don't think they currently have authority to award themselves such a large number of shares. I know which way I will vote on it, probably wont make much difference but I would encourage fellow shareholders to do similar. I will also be speaking to the company about this

[bonio10000] 12/7/2011 09:18

Nice of them to grant options at rock bottom prices.

Unbelievable.

[spaceparallax] 12/7/2011 09:14

Nice Director 'buys'

[bonio10000] 08/7/2011 15:59

Maybe the legion of chavs will start making cakes to save money.....or then again maybe they can't be bothered and will still pop to the supermarket.

Meanwhile, the freefrom business grows steadily.

[boffster] 08/7/2011 15:51

Nebt debt to market cap is a silly measure if you ask me. As the cheaper the company gets the worse it looks! It is only of importance if a share issue looks likely - and with an interest cover of around 4, I don't think we need to concern ourselves with that here.

[little beaker] 08/7/2011 15:36

Aleman's reading of PFD vs FIF fails to understand that while there's parallels in terms of input price pressures, FIF's more discretionary-led product line will suffer far more from a drop in consumer spending than PFD's, regardless of pricing power. You only need to cast a cursory glance over retailers such as Thornton's to see the damage this can do.

With PFD's incredible net debt/market cap and vulnerable product line, poor trading this year could be catastophic.

So I'm avoiding. All imo (no position).

[boffster] 08/7/2011 09:14

Something strange seems to be happening and I've noticed this before, if I place a fill or kill order at a limit price, it seems to trigger a buy from somewhere else, and my order doesn't go through. Is this just coincidental or is there some trickery at work?

[aleman] 07/7/2011 10:02

Another month of strong output of food, drink and tobacco. It has been recording around 5% annual rise in volume for about 10 months, which is odd when you consider the higher prices (so turnover for the sector should be around +11%?)