Eurasian Share Discussion Threads

[durby] 03/4/2013 23:22

cfb2 - In the annual results presentation, an analyst asked a question around whether any major shareholder have borrowed money using the ENRC shares as collateral. The response was that management was unaware of anything like this happening and that to do something like this is up to decision made by individual shareholders.

[mr jam] 03/4/2013 22:44

FX,

what does ur 'valuation method' say??????????????????????????????

[fxdealer3] 03/4/2013 18:13

i think u guys need u head tested ..and check valuation methods ,,


be careful .

fx

[cfb2] 03/4/2013 17:05

Dr Biotech: The KAZ ownership is obvious from overlaying their share price on ENRC's. And their writedowns of those shares.

Nothing wrong with your advice on guessing the bottom - I often wait for three successive up days or positive news. On this occassion I went half in on a sudden spike down to 241p. Shame that.

CFB

[dr biotech] 03/4/2013 15:58

CFB _ I have heard that is the case with KAZ and of course they hold a lot here.

I guess at some point they will have to increase the free float to keep up with the exchange rules. I don't see that as being a problem in itself, but of course it brings some uncertainty into it. At somepoint this will bounce - trying to guess the bottom is a bit of a mugs game. Better to wait until it has at least a couple of days of not falling to be sure.

[careful] 03/4/2013 15:08

the lower it goes the less incentive the oligarchs have to increase the free float because of dilution.
even more so for a rights issue.
all this means that the short position is the most logical position (short term trade)

for the long term value investor this must be a great entry point.
the worst case scenario would be consolidation within the industry.

KAZ own 25% of enrc, and are also bombed out.
why not a full merger?

[cfb2] 03/4/2013 14:54

careful: Difficult to see whether there is a real reason for the relentless fall in ENRC. The latest story I've heard is that a number of oligarchs have pledged their shares as loan collatoral. Very annoying as it isn't possible to verify so again quite likely a rumour put about to keep the fall coming. Someone is doing very well out of this and it isn't me this time!

CFB

[careful] 03/4/2013 13:01

enrc have lost 80% of their value over 2 years.
the market is a dangerous place.
i can't think of a single share that has not moved at least 30% up or down over that period.
there is no such thing as a steady share anymore.

but if you look at turnover, profit, cash flow, assets then the companies should be steady.
usually quite boring.

[mr jam] 03/4/2013 11:12

like i said earlier, a family member of one of the oligarch owners said this was a buy at 2.57. let alone 2.20. there is nothing wrong here but market silliness

[tanzz786] 03/4/2013 09:44

This is a last man standing scenario - the big buys are starting now...volumes increasing as I type

[2bung] 03/4/2013 09:42

markets are only forward looking when it suits them

[salpara111] 03/4/2013 09:27

The orgy of Capex that all the big miners have engaged in during the last 3 years are coming home to roost!
They have no choice but to ramp up output over the next 12 months in order to get some cash flow to service their monumental debts but they are increasing production into a weak end demand market.
Markets are forward looking and they are quite rightly saying that things are going to get worse before they get better hence the big share price markdowns.
While I do spread bet I am not a fan of shorting (nothing ethical....just always feel uneasy doing it)so I will keep watching over the next year as sentiment will eventually turn and those left standing will be richly rewarded however it is pretty clear that we are not yet near the turning point.

[2bung] 03/4/2013 09:21

unreal they are taking it down so quickly

[careful] 03/4/2013 09:09

more like programme driven traders.
the trend has been strong with no sign of a turning point.
light volume.
no real news.
strip out the writedown of $1500m of assets (on 20,000m total) net assets were $11000m (including debt.)

PE is low single figures based upon last years results.(ignoring the non cash writedown)
provided they do not know something we do not, and accepting that metal prices have fallen as China has slowed,
these shorters present we serious investors with some great opportunities.

[p bear] 03/4/2013 08:47

Could be loss taking (to off-set capital gains) before the new tax year. Metal prices also sliding a little.

[mr jam] 03/4/2013 08:03

now, if an owner of the company says that at 2.55 this is a screaming buy, is this just market shenanigans?

fsa should force company tomake a statement

[mr jam] 03/4/2013 07:47

bear raid or does someone know a lot more than us.........volume is so low. i can trade that kind of volume thru IG. so bit surprised company not out defending.

[2bung] 02/4/2013 22:51

thanks.

bought in at £2.85 but stopped out at £2.45

[smurfy2001] 02/4/2013 22:32

Kaz owns some enrc. So if enrc keeps going down kaz has to write off. Also if enrc has a rights issue then l expect both to be hammered.

[2bung] 02/4/2013 15:55

does kaz own some enrc or the other way around ?

[smurfy2001] 02/4/2013 15:52

China's construction boom is over

So commodity prices have been falling, and stocks of copper and iron ore have been building. For these reasons, the share prices of Rio Tinto and particularly Kazakhmys have crashed.

[2bung] 02/4/2013 10:26

looks like this will go to £2

[b1llyboy] 01/4/2013 21:06

They get a close shave.