Cineworld Share Discussion Threads

[millennialinvestor] 07/6/2023 14:24

JakNife you forgot the shareholders in your scenario...

Before PWhites boiler exploded completely oblierating all of his sentimental possessions, pwhite raised some money by selling part of his garden to hedgehogs to help fund his long stint of unemployment. Since the great boiler disaster the hedgehogs have cut their losses as the banks have taken back the whole plot and the hedgehogs have found a nicer plot to invest their money in.

[pwhite73] 07/6/2023 14:15

JaKNife - "There's just 21 days before the good and wise Judge Marvin Isgur passes his judgement"

That's interesting because I thought I read in Dockett 1782 the good and wise Judge Marvin Isgur has extended the Exclusivity and Solicitation periods to 04/08/2023 and 03/10/2023 respectively.

[jaknife] 07/6/2023 14:04

PWhite73,

You've already given one flawed mortgage analogy to which I responded in post 16,003:

====================
You take out a 100% mortgage on a home valued at £250,000. Two years later you lose your job and struggle with the monthly mortgage payments, your bank takes pity on you and lets you defer payments for six months until you find another job. Then, in a freak disaster, your gas boiler explodes completely destroying the house and all your worldly possessions. And you didn’t renew your house insurance last month because you were so low on cash! The insurance company value the plot of land at £80,000 but the bank step in and explain that you will have to let them have that £80,000. However, they take pity on your situation and let you off the remaining £170,000 (£250,000 - £80,000) that you owe them. The bank sell the plot of land to a land developer for £80,000 and write-off the £170,000 that you still owe them.
====================

But why argue? There's just 21 days before the good and wise Judge Marvin Isgur passes his judgement and we can finally see whether the shares are going to be zero or whatever the alternative (greater than zero) price that you predict. I will have to buy my own case of white burgundy to celebrate!

JakNife

[pwhite73] 07/6/2023 13:56

millenialinvestor - Everything you posted is correct except this part:-

"People stop coming to cine."

You should have written. 'An Executive Order from the President of the United States, the British Prime Minister and European leaders forbade anybody from attending Cinemas and from Cinemas inviting anybody to attend".

Speak Later.

[millennialinvestor] 07/6/2023 13:51

PWhite, how about this explainer for you:

Cine starts business.
Cine makes money.
Cine grows rapidly.
Cine share price good.
Cine buys other cinemas rapidly and borrowed money.
People stop coming to cine.
Cine start selling property to boost cash.
Cine's monthly expenses rise due to now paying rent.
Cine borrows more money.
Cine share price declines due to large borrowing.
Cine borrows some more money to pay existing creditors.
(Epic spiral out of control).
Shorters have a party.
Cine goes bankrupt as no one want's to lend them another penny.
PWhite values cine at 12 billion.
JakNife issues PWhite multiple fatal blows to the cranium, PWhites funeral is next week.
Millennial & JakNife submit their new sunseeker orders ready for summer cruising the Maldives.

[millennialinvestor] 07/6/2023 13:48

And what is that excuse for? So what they are the second largest cinema chain in the world? I'd make more profit than cineworld by buying a multipack bag of crisps and auctioning them off to the homeless.

[pwhite73] 07/6/2023 13:46

mill - Cineworld are the second largest cinema chain in the entire world. I don't think you appreciated just how big they are.

[jaknife] 07/6/2023 13:13

millennialinvestor,

"Personally I think share holders should be partly responsible for the debt."

LOL!

FWIW the debt that shareholders have been protected from paying is currently £2.63 per share. That's calculated as:

$4.5bn of debt written off / 1,373m shares / USD to GBP FX rate of 1.2464 = £2.63

Can you imagine? You've got £100 of shares valued at 1p each and hence are notionally on the hook for £26,200 of the debt. But because of limited liability you've been let off paying that debt.

However, you're still not grateful and have the audacity to write a letter to the court suggesting that it would be "wise" for the court to take a further £13m off of the creditors and donate that to shareholders because ..... ?????

It beggars belief that shareholders still don't understand the basic concepts here - that equity is the risk capital that bears the first loss - or the quantum of the numbers.

JakNife

[pwhite73] 07/6/2023 13:10

millennialinvestor - "How is it fairness PWhite? Lenders aren't even being paid in full"

The argument put forward by the shareholder requesting the Shareholder Equity Scheme is that the lenders don't want to be paid in full for being paid in full is only $4.5 billion whereas CINE world has a real value of about $12 billion and given time even more as further block busters are released.

So its in the lenders financial interest to write off $4.5 billion in exchange for the whole company worth $12 billion. If lenders hadn't supported CINE and called in their loans the CINE would have been placed into UK administration and UK administrators would have been doing what the Texas Court is doing only without the directors or lenders in control. About $40 million in court fees have been racked up by the lenders in the US all paid for by CINE. Those fees but not of that size would have went to the UK administrator(s).

As small PIs are disparate and don't have the millions to challenge the C11 process there is nothing they can do but plead with the judge to use his wisdom and grant them mercy.

[millennialinvestor] 07/6/2023 12:55

Personally I think share holders should be partly responsible for the debt.

[millennialinvestor] 07/6/2023 12:51

How is it fairness PWhite? Lenders aren't even being paid in full so why would shareholders be entitled to anything? Shareholders haven't supported the business at all.

[pwhite73] 07/6/2023 11:07

millennialinvestor - "We respectfully request the Court to exercise it's wisdom"

What's so funny about that. The court knows only too well the disparate group of small shareholders cannot muster up the the millions of dollars required to present a legal challenge to the C11 process. Therefore their chances of any recovery are at the total mercy of the court.

The question is will the judge say - "well look the current market cap of CINE is only £12m which represents just 0.2% of the whole £6.5 billion C11 package in the interest of fairness for all can you not grant them that".

[pwhite73] 07/6/2023 10:53

Dockett 1799 I see the new company is going to be called New Cineworld Limited and re-registered in the Cayman Island well out of the reach of HMRC when it becomes profitable in twelve months time or even less.

Exhibit B page 130. They are yet to name members of the new board. I wonder who they might be?

Exhibit H page 209. The UK implementation agreement is yet to be stated. Am I surprised? NO.

Wait for the UK action to start if it ever does.

[lthtrust] 07/6/2023 09:54

The document made my day. When will LTH shareholders finally understand that cineworld's equity has been lost. It is GONE, it is NO MORE. Just look at cineworld's declared losses over the past few years. Look at their tangible assets and compare them with their debts. Also check the current boxofficemojo figures, you will notice that the US box office has NOT RECOVERED to pre pandemic levels.

[millennialinvestor] 07/6/2023 09:23

JakNife that document you have shared is hysterical.

"We respectfully request the Court to exercise it's wisdom"

is my favourite.

[werethereisawill] 07/6/2023 09:10

Bbm
Because JakNife is a gentleman!

[bbmsionlypostafter mk2] 07/6/2023 07:28

JakNife,

Why do you waste your time talking to this idiot? You've been back & forth over the same ground many, many times for months & he still doesn't get it.

[werethereisawill] 06/6/2023 23:55

I agree with the shareholders message to the judge !
And the judge and new owners of Cine should bear in mind that most probably many of the share holders are actually employees of the company !
Would they remain loyal if they loose all their money ?
Would they be willing to work hard in order to generate profits for the ‘new’ owners !?
People must know that a few years ago the company implemented a employee share scheme…
PS I agree re audacity of the Shareholder but I’m sure it’s borne out of sheer desperation !
And clearly the company is worth a lot more than the 12 million being quoted ?!
Also very clear that shorters were allowed to make things worse !

[williamcooper104] 06/6/2023 19:58

Yep - that's it The value of Cine is way less than all of the debt So creditors get to take it

[williamcooper104] 06/6/2023 19:57

Nope It's to prevent companies from liquidating Its not to bail out equity

[werethereisawill] 06/6/2023 19:46

Do the creditors are effectively BUYING cineworld?