Cineworld Share Discussion Threads

[pwhite73] 13/5/2023 09:16

Part 1

LTHTRUST - "For several months now Cineworld have been releasing RNS's in which they inform investors that they expect that current shareholders will get nothing,"

Those RNS's are both false and misleading. Under the C11 proposals the directors who are also major shareholders of Cineworld are due to receive 7.5% of the Newco. By calling the 7.5% a management incentive plan they obviously think smaller shareholders are too thick to work out the directors are being compensated for the loss of their shareholdings.

LTHTRUST - "Can someone please remind me what Cineworld's equity attributable to equity holders of the group was at the end 0f 2022 ?"

You take out a 100% mortgage on a home valued at £250,000. Two years later the price of your home drops to £200,000 and you've only paid off £24,000 (£1000 per month). Were you to sell your home you would get nothing back as there is no equity value in it.

Six months later as part of their property portfolio the estate of The Prince and Princess of Wales purchase the house next to yours. How much is your home worth now?

This is the situation with Cineworld. Since the end of 2022 the world's top ten films have grossed £3.452 billion and we are only in May 2023. Cineworld is the largest cinema chain in the world.

[werethereisawill] 12/5/2023 19:44

Freaky Friday sequel on its way and yes they keep on coming …
Yep Jumangi 4 on its way too !!

[lthtrust] 12/5/2023 18:01

For several months now Cineworld have been releasing RNS's in which they inform investors that they expect that current shareholders will get nothing, no recovery whatsoever, from any plan that is acceptable to the creditors. Can someone please remind me what Cineworld's equity attributable to equity holders of the group was at the end 0f 2022 ?

[werethereisawill] 12/5/2023 13:01

Mill
Millions of women love Book Club and more women go to cinema than men !
Keep an eye on My Little Mermaid coming soon !

[pwhite73] 12/5/2023 12:54

You'll get it shortly when Cine try to implement the terms of the US C11 in the UK High Court.

[millennialinvestor] 12/5/2023 12:49

Book Club 2? who would watch something as dire as that

we want Fight Club 2!!!!!!

[werethereisawill] 12/5/2023 12:22

My big fat Greek Wedding on its way !
They keep coming
Check out The Book Club 2 out today

[lthtrust] 12/5/2023 00:26

werethereisawill, what like making money on the stock market by investing wisely and avoiding bankrupt stocks ?

[werethereisawill] 11/5/2023 17:47

People should know just because one CAN do something sometimes one chooses NOT to do it !

[pwhite73] 11/5/2023 15:41

JakNife - "Yes the capital structure of New Cineworld is going to be $2.26bn of which $400m is new equity, $400m is equity issued to creditors in settlement of their debts and $1.46bn is a *brand new fresh loan facility* from a completely new and fresh syndicate of which there is but a small overlap with the existing creditors"

Ok bear with me but how are the 'new and fresh syndicate' going to recuperate their money if its all going to the DIP lenders to settle in full. Cine certainly doesn't have the cash.

Speak Later

[jaknife] 11/5/2023 15:31

PWhite73,

I could answer your question but let me just check.

1. Have you listened to the court hearing from 20th April when Cineworld’s lawyer (Joshua Sussberg) says that the capital raise of $2.26bn will enable the DIP lenders to be repaid in full? He is quite adamant about how they are going to be repaid in full and appears to be quite proud about this specific fact.

2. Do you deny the words in the Plan that explicitly state that:

"each Holder of an Allowed DIP Claim shall be indefeasibly paid and satisfied in full in Cash on the Effective Date“

Because if the above two points are factually correct (and they are) then it would seem obvious that somewhere you've made an error. Perhaps you've simply made an assumption that's completely incorrect? Perhaps reading all of page 29 and the top of page 30 of the Plan might tease out the assumption that you've made and then you'll be able to answer the question for yourself?

Yes the capital structure of New Cineworld is going to be $2.26bn of which $400m is new equity, $400m is equity issued to creditors in settlement of their debts and $1.46bn is a *brand new fresh loan facility* from a completely new and fresh syndicate of which there is but a small overlap with the existing creditors.

Let me repeat and categorically state for the third time: when CINE comes out of CH11 the DIP lenders are going to be repaid in full!

Now please, you're wasting my time, if you just sit back and wait you will find the answers to all of your questions in time. It's not even as if you have any monetary amount riding on the outcome here.

JakNife

[pwhite73] 11/5/2023 15:31

Dockett 1600 25/04/2023 page 1.

"PwC UK and the Debtors desire to enter an additional engagement letter ......... for the engagement of PwC UK to, among other things, prepare an offering memorandum with respect to the Debtors’proposed issuance of senior notes in connection with their chapter 11 plan of reorganization..."

[millennialinvestor] 11/5/2023 15:15

PWhite is smoking cuban burnt tyres

[pwhite73] 11/5/2023 15:08

JakNife - "1. If you listen to the last court hearing on 20th April then you will hear Cineworld’s lawyer (Joshua Sussberg) describe how the capital raise of $2.26bn will enable the DIP lenders to be repaid in full.."

How is Cine going to raise $2.26bn in capital? The judge allowed for a loan of $1.46 billion and $800 million raised through the issuance of stock in the Newco. That's where the $2.26 billion has come from. The S1.46 billion is loan notes.

[jaknife] 11/5/2023 14:55

PWhite731,

You very assuredly state:

“The DIP lenders are not going to be paid in full Cine is going to issue loan notes.”

And yet:

1. If you listen to the last court hearing on 20th April then you will hear Cineworld’s lawyer (Joshua Sussberg) describe how the capital raise of $2.26bn will enable the DIP lenders to be repaid in full, and

2. If you read the Plan you will find in various places a description of the process that, for example on page 29 says:

” The DIP Claims shall be deemed to be Allowed Claims in the full amount outstanding under the DIP Facility Credit Agreement as of the Effective Date (including any unpaid accrued interest and unpaid fees, expenses, and other obligations under the DIP Facility Credit Agreement as of the Effective Date). In full satisfaction, settlement, discharge, and release of, and in exchange for, the DIP Claims, each Holder of an Allowed DIP Claim shall be indefeasibly paid and satisfied in full in Cash on the Effective Date ………; “ [my bold]

So let me repeat and categorically state: when CINE comes out of CH11 the DIP lenders are going to be repaid in full!


”As I thought you can't give any examples because there aren't any. It is you that does not understand the jurisdictional issues here. I've suggested before the US lenders are essentially after the US cinemas and in particular Regal. That's what they are going to form the Newco out of. The UK and ROW cinemas are just an addendum. If they get them through administration across various UK and EU jurisdictions then that's a bonus. If they can't they're not going to unravel the entire C11 process.”

Given that I’ve repeatedly answered this point and we’ve not progressed beyond your fantasy that the lenders are somehow going to walk away from their secured claims and let shareholders undeservedly recover some value then I suggest that we simply draw a line under the topic and wait to see what happens. Whilst my kindness is infinite, my patience is not.


”Indeed in every docket they warn of the possibility of not being able to implement the plan in the UK.”

It’s called boiler plate.

JakNife

[pwhite73] 11/5/2023 14:13

JakNife - "You have completely missed the point that when CINE comes out of CH11 the DIP lenders are going to be repaid in full! Where do you think that that money is going to magically appear from?"

The DIP lenders are not going to be paid in full Cine is going to issue loan notes.

JakNife - "2. The point that you're trying to make is completely irrelevant, you've entirely missed what the actual jurisdictional issues are with Cineworld."

As I thought you can't give any examples because there aren't any. It is you that does not understand the jurisdictional issues here. I've suggested before the US lenders are essentially after the US cinemas and in particular Regal. That's what they are going to form the Newco out of. The UK and ROW cinemas are just an addendum. If they get them through administration across various UK and EU jurisdictions then that's a bonus. If they can't they're not going to unravel the entire C11 process.

Indeed in every docket they warn of the possibility of not being able to implement the plan in the UK.

[williamcooper104] 11/5/2023 14:06

I've always found lenders to be charitable sorts Especially when they lose billions

[jaknife] 11/5/2023 13:57

PWhite73,

"Wc104 - "What you’re saying is that Cine isn’t insolvent because it’s creditors have given it a lot of money. So therefore there must be equity value"

That is exactly the point I'm making. I've said this 100 times before. Through C11 Cine has gone through its rescue package. Now in order to complete C11 it has to convince the UK courts the rescue package never took place and the company is as insolvent as it was before C11."

I'm sorry but this is economic illiteracy. You have completely missed the point that when CINE comes out of CH11 the DIP lenders are going to be repaid in full! Where do you think that that money is going to magically appear from?


"You must believe when I say I respect your knowledge and experience. However I have asked you on numerous occasions to give an example where a UK registered and listed company has filed for C11 in the US and then went onto file for administration in the UK. I'm still waiting."


1. I'm not here to make your arguments and do your research for you.

2. The point that you're trying to make is completely irrelevant, you've entirely missed what the actual jurisdictional issues are with Cineworld.

JakNife

[pwhite73] 11/5/2023 13:33

Wc104 - "What you’re saying is that Cine isn’t insolvent because it’s creditors have given it a lot of money. So therefore there must be equity value"

That is exactly the point I'm making. I've said this 100 times before. Through C11 Cine has gone through its rescue package. Now in order to complete C11 it has to convince the UK courts the rescue package never took place and the company is as insolvent as it was before C11.

JakNife - "4. You really should be accepting my comments as face value. I have 23 years experience of investment banking explicitly working in a team responsible for complex transactions"

You must believe when I say I respect your knowledge and experience. However I have asked you on numerous occasions to give an example where a UK registered and listed company has filed for C11 in the US and then went onto file for administration in the UK. I'm still waiting.

[williamcooper104] 11/5/2023 13:04

LoL What you're saying is that Cine isn't insolvent because it's creditors have given it a lot of money So therefore there must be equity value