Share Name Share Symbol Market Type Share ISIN Share Description
Capital Gearing Trust Plc LSE:CGT London Ordinary Share GB0001738615 ORD 25P
  Price Change % Change Share Price Bid Price Offer Price High Price Low Price Open Price Shares Traded Last Trade
  -5.00 -0.11% 4,455.00 4,450.00 4,460.00 4,450.00 4,450.00 4,450.00 21,339 16:35:05
Industry Sector Turnover (m) Profit (m) EPS - Basic PE Ratio Market Cap (m)
Equity Investment Instruments 4.7 3.7 51.1 87.1 488

Capital Gearing Share Discussion Threads

Showing 8251 to 8274 of 8275 messages
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DateSubjectAuthorDiscuss
27/1/2020
12:46
Thanks Gengulphus - the rules were changed a year or so ago, which, rather than simplifying things added another layer of complexity. The rates differ substantially from personal rates and although the principle are broadly aligned, taxes can be triggered at the point at which assets are settled and at the 10 year rule. This latter tax is on the total value of the Trust and dependent on any distributions made in the 10 year period. It is quite a minefield and I am anxious not to fall foul of either the rules or the spirit of the rules. Insofar as investment determined by taxation - you are quite correct and has never been part of my planning for the inevitable transition of generations.
erogenous jones
25/1/2020
12:20
Erogenous Jones, I'm sorry, but I think I have to largely pass on your question, because discretionary trusts and their taxation go well beyond my knowledge and experience. About all I can say is that if the rules for capital losses are the same as they are for individuals (which seems reasonably likely to me, but it's not something I know for a fact), then: * Gains and losses only arise (or are 'realised' in taxspeak) for CGT purposes if and when the assets are disposed of (usually by sale). So the trustees are to a large extent in control of which gains and losses arise for CGT purposes - they can prevent excessive gains or unneeded losses from arising by choosing not to sell, or cause losses needed to offset excessive gains (or enough gains to use the CGT allowance) to arise by choosing to sell. There are of course other forms of disposal that the trustees don't have a choice about, such as having a shareholding taken over or having made a fixed-term investment that matures, so they won't necessarily be able to totally control which gains and losses arise for CGT purposes - but they will generally have quite a lot of control. * When considering selling for the CGT effects, do pay attention to the old maxim that one shouldn't let the tax tail wag the investment dog - if there's a clear investment case for selling, do sell, and if there's a clear investment case for holding, don't sell, in both cases even if that means that the trust pays more CGT. But if the investment case is unclear, using the CGT effects as a tiebreaker between selling and not selling can be a reasonable idea. * Also watch out about trading costs: at 1%ish, they may seem small compared with 20% CGT, but they're a percentage of the total capital and the CGT is a percentage of the gain or loss - so if e.g. an investment is standing at a 5% loss, selling to save CGT by offsetting the loss is likely to cost about as much as it saves... * Once a loss has arisen by the asset being disposed of, one needs to tell HMRC about it (known as 'claiming' the loss) within 4 years after the end of the tax year in which it arose if one is ever to use it to offset gains. It also has to be used to offset gains that arose in the same tax year to the extent that there are such gains, even if those gains fall within the CGT allowance. Losses that arise in a tax year and are in excess of gains that arose in the same tax year can be carried forward to be used in later tax years, provided HMRC are told about them within the 4-year time limit. Note that once HMRC have been told about such a loss, it gets carried forward until it's needed because gains exceed the CGT allowance (unlike same-year losses, brought-forward losses do not have to be offset against gains below the CGT allowance), with no time limit on how long it might take. As some examples: A) Suppose that the trust realised a loss of £1,000 and no gains in the 2015/2016 tax year, and that the trust hasn't realised gains in excess of the CGT allowance since then. That loss can be carried forward through all of those tax years and will continue to be available into the future, provided HMRC are told about it (with details - i.e. what was sold, when, how much it was sold for and how much it had cost, etc) by the deadline, which is April 5th this year (four years after the end of the 2015/2016 tax year). B) Suppose that the trust realised a loss of £1,000 and a gain of £500 in the 2015/2016 tax year, and that the trust hasn't realised gains in excess of the CGT allowance since then. The first £500 of that loss has to be offset against the gain, but the remaining £500 can be carried forward through all of those tax years and will continue to be available into the future, provided HMRC are told about it (with details - i.e. what was sold, when, how much it was sold for and how much it had cost, similar details of the gain it was partially offset against, etc) by the same deadline. C) Suppose that the trust realised a loss of £1,000 and a gain of £1,500 in the 2015/2016 tax year, and that the trust hasn't realised gains in excess of the CGT allowance since then. That loss has to be offset entirely against the gain and none of it can be carried forward, and (AFAIAA) the difference between having £1,500 net gains and £500 net gains in the 2015/2016 tax year makes no difference to the fact that no CGT was payable for that tax year. So while the trustees could provide details to 'claim' the loss, there would be no point in doing so (and if the trust tax return is like the individual one, the question it asks is whether one wants to claim losses, so one can truthfully answer it "No" in such circumstances). I should end this reply (which seems to have grown longer than I anticipated!) by again stressing the fact that it's based on my knowledge of CGT as it applies to individuals, and is only relevant to CGT as it applies to trusts to the extent that the rules are the same. Whether they are the same is something I'll have to leave to you or others to determine. Gengulphus
gengulphus
24/1/2020
19:58
Thank you very much for your swift, and very detailed reply, Gengulphus. Very much appreciated.
eeza
24/1/2020
14:14
Hi Gengulphus Firstly, thank you for the considerable help in matters of CGT given to others where your answer has made the completion of my tax return much easier. My wife and I set up a Discretionary Trust in 2015, for the benefit of our children in planning IHT. The Trust has been registered and we settled cash in 2015/2016 of £6,000. We chose this as we had not gifted any cash directly to our 2 children in either the current or previous tax year. The Trust has invested this cash, along with £3,000 in each of 2016/17, 2017/18 and 2018/19 tax years. Again, I have used the "gift allowance" to its maximum. This tax year, I am required to complete an income tax return for the Discretionary Trust. Gains have been made, but they are just within the allowance for trusts. I intend to settle £50,000 this tax year, a further £100,000 next one and £150,000 in the year after. This will bring the amount that I have settled (if the "gift" element is rejected) to £325,000, the maximum I can do every 7 years for it to fall out of my estate for tax planning purposes. I accept that the clock for the 7 years is a rolling one. As the Trust (based on past performance) is likely to exceed the allowances for CGT and income from dividends, is there any mitigation that I can gift such as losses in previous years that have not and are likely not to be used? EDIT there have been no distributions made by the trust.
erogenous jones
24/1/2020
13:29
eeza, My understanding is that CGT totally ignores CGT-exempt assets, so I think your total sales should only count the CGT-chargeable gold coins. I don't know exactly what "registered for Self Assessment" means or how long such registration lasts for, but my understanding of your obligations is based on https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/self-assessment-legal-framework/salf210. It is that: * if HMRC ask you to fill in and submit a tax return for a tax year, you're obliged to do so and to follow its instructions in doing so - those instructions include having to fill in the capital gains part if the total for which you have sold (non-CGT-exempt, I believe) assets is over four times the allowance; * if HMRC don't ask you to fill in and submit a tax return for a tax year, you're obliged to work out whether you have Income Tax to pay in excess of what has already been deducted at source, and whether you have CGT to pay, and to notify HMRC if you have either (and I would expect HMRC to often respond to receiving such a notification by asking the taxpayer to fill in and submit a tax return, changing it into the first situation). As far as I am aware, this obligation does not involve a check on the value of the assets you have disposed of, only on the gains you have made (*). So on the assumption that HMRC haven't asked you to fill in and submit a tax return, it doesn't sound to me as though you need to do anything about CGT. And even if they have asked you to fill in and submit a tax return, or if they do so in the future, it doesn't sound to me as though you need to say anything about CGT in it. Just to be clear, though, I'm not a tax professional or expert - I'm an informed layman on CGT with most of my experience of CGT being for shares. I have no experience of CGT on coins, etc. So I am a bit out of my depth here, and my understanding is based only on general principles - it could easily be wrong if (for example) there's a special rule somewhere that I haven't encountered... (*) Note that if your overall gains are made up of a mixture of individual gains and losses, you can only offset the losses against the gains if you have 'claimed' the losses - i.e. told HMRC about them, with details. This could just conceivably be an issue for your chargeable sales - e.g. if you bought two coins for £2.5k and £17k, and sold them for £15k and £5k respectively, you would have sold for £20k and made an overall gain of £500, but it would be made up of an individual gain of £12.5k and an individual loss of £12k, and you would have to let HMRC know about at least one of the loss (to 'claim' it) and the gain (if you left the loss 'unclaimed'). I don't think that sort of situation is at all likely with gold coins, as in your case, but it can easily happen with other types of asset such as shares - so I'm writing this footnote mainly as a warning to other readers! Gengulphus
gengulphus
23/1/2020
23:30
Gengulphus Could you offer your opinion, please. From HMRC - Capital Gains Tax - Work out if you need to pay If your total gains are less than the tax-free allowance You do not have to pay tax if your total taxable gains are under your Capital Gains Tax allowance. You still need to report your gains in your tax return if both of the following apply: 1) the total amount you sold the assets for was more than 4 times your allowance 2) you’re registered for Self Assessment Tax year 2019-2020 - Allowance £ 12,000 I have sold a quantity of gold coins, mostly Gold Sovereigns & Britannias - CGT exempt. Total Sales Exempt Sales Chargeable Sales £ 90,000 ....£ 70,000 ........£ 20,000 Total Gains Exempt gains Chargeable Gains £ 5,000 ......£ 4,500 ..........£ 500 So my gains are less than my CGT allowance. The next test states BOTH 1 & 2 need to apply. Q: Does #1 - 'the total amount you sold the assets for' refer to the chargeable assets sold (that gave rise to the capital gains) or to the total assets sold (Exempt + chargeable)? Q; Does #2 mean I am registered for SA and need to make a return this year - or refer to being registered for SA at some time in the past? I was registered for SA in the past but have not had to make a SA return for the last 2 years as only have OAP + tiny private pension.
eeza
08/1/2020
18:00
@psync - They are positioned in the expectation of a crash. The problem with timing the market in this way is that you can be wrong for a long time and miss out on the rising market. e.g Terry Smith at Fundsmith would not agree with this strategy.
apollocreed1
07/1/2020
15:07
It's an interesting portfolio with 35% equities, 60% fixed income and 5% cash/gold. Obviously performs well compared to global aggregate bond indices due to equity exposure but I wanted to see how it compared to a similar composition LifeStrategy fund: 5 Yr Return Annualised: 6.4% - Capital Gearing Trust (November 2019) 5.8% - Vanguard LifeStrategy 20% Equity (September 2019) 7.3% - Vanguard LifeStrategy 40% Equity (September 2019) I guess the advantage here is that management can change allocations to benefit returns, and LifeStrategy fund data only goes back to 2011 so don't know how it would have performed relatively during the financial crisis.
psync
01/1/2020
12:41
But I think the CG Absolute Return Income fund that they run (the open ended unit trust) might be a better way to get in. There's no spread or premium to pay and I think the portfolios are virtually the same.
apollocreed1
31/12/2019
23:42
I would not argue with that . SOUND.
escapetohome
31/12/2019
21:13
Time to move some money into this fund I think. US markets are looking very expensive, although I still like the FTSE 250.
apollocreed1
09/9/2019
18:32
Once again thanks Gengulphus. Really thorough reply and made it really clear.
attrader
01/9/2019
20:12
If you go to the information desk in the Business & IP Centre they'll show you how to search their database. You can open the reports to read on their desktop computers, but if you want copies you have to go back to the desk and they download and email them to you. Unfortunately they limit it to ten per day - I don't know if there's any flexibility about that. (If you don't have a reader's card, it's easy to get one but you do have to apply in advance online and take some ID in with you when you go to collect it. They ask why you want a card but I had the impression that any reason would be accepted.)
finkwot
31/8/2019
16:29
(wrong board)
zangdook
31/8/2019
15:03
finkwot, Incidentally, with reference to my earlier enquiry and your reply in post 1100, after trying several places I found the Business & IP Centre at the British Library the most helpful for finding old company reports. They don't have a complete collection but they have quite a few in scanned form which they cheerfully give out. Thank you! Not a place I would have thought of looking, and a source of scanned old company reports would be most helpful for allowing me to reduce my substantial pile of paper copies of old company reports without any fear of throwing any information I might find useful (or even just interesting) in the future. And as it happens, I'm probably moving house in the reasonably near future, so making it easier for me to dispose of old papers is very useful at present - especially bulky ones like company reports! Gengulphus
gengulphus
31/8/2019
14:54
robo21, Retired gent opens crypto trading account makes profit 100k 19-20 tax year. What would his capital gain liability be ? Sorry, insufficient information there to determine what the answer is. Further information needed includes at least: * just how the "profit" has been calculated - CGT works off "realised capital gains", which may be calculated differently; * whether any taxable capital gains on other assets have been realised in the same tax year, and if so, what they are; * whether any allowable capital losses have been realised in the same tax year, and if so, what they are; * whether the retired gent has brought-forward losses from earlier tax years, and if so, what they are; * whether the retired gent is a non-taxpayer, a basic-rate taxpayer or a higher-rate (or above) taxpayer as far as Income Tax is concerned, and if a basic-rate taxpayer, how much of their basic-rate band they've left unused (see my reply to attrader above). But to give an idea, if the "profit" has been calculated in the way that "realised capital gains" should be, and there are no other realised gains or losses in the tax year, nor any brought-forward losses from earlier tax years, then: * If the retired gent is a higher-rate (or above) taxpayer as far as Income Tax is concerned, then the first £12k (the 2019/20 CGT allowance) of the gains are free of CGT, and the remaining £88k are all charged at 20%, for a CGT bill of £17,600. * If the retired gent is a non-taxpayer as far as Income Tax is concerned, then the first £12k (the 2019/20 CGT allowance) of the gains are free of CGT, then the next £37.5k (the 2019/20 Income Tax basic-rate band) are charged at 10%, and the remaining £50.5k are charged at 20%, for a CGT bill of £3,750 + £10,100 = £13,850. * If the retired gent is a basic-rate taxpayer as far as Income Tax is concerned, then the answer lies somewhere between £13,850 and £17,600 - where exactly between them depending on how much of their basic-rate band was left unused in their Income Tax calculation. Finally, all of this answer is dependent on my not having missed any relevant special rules having been introduced about CGT on cryptocurrencies - because they're a relatively new form of investment, it's rather more likely than usual that they have been! Gengulphus
gengulphus
31/8/2019
14:40
Gengulphus Thank you. The rights issues date back to the 1990s and it took me quite some time to find the details (and even now I don't have them all), so I think I shall assume that since, as you say, the effect is just to add the enhancement expenditure to the base cost HMRC won't mind too much if I just present it like that. As far as I can tell the rights were taken up in full. Incidentally, with reference to my earlier enquiry and your reply in post 1100, after trying several places I found the Business & IP Centre at the British Library the most helpful for finding old company reports. They don't have a complete collection but they have quite a few in scanned form which they cheerfully give out.
finkwot
31/8/2019
14:06
attrader, I have a question about CGT tax bracket. I have a company where I receive all my income in dividends and I pay dividend tax rate. For CGT, would I be classified as Basic Rate payer or High rate payer since I don’t receive any salaried income ? I cannot really answer that question as it stands, because nobody is really classified as either a basic-rate taxpayer or a higher-rate taxpayer for CGT purposes. Rather, their taxable capital gains are taxed by CGT at either the lower rates of CGT (10%, or 18% for residential property) or the higher rates (20%, or 28% for residential property), as follows: 1) Work out the total of their taxable capital gains realised during the year. 2) Deduct allowable capital losses according to the rules for doing so: first deduct ones realised during the same year as far as possible (i.e. deduct all those losses if they're less than the gains, or an amount equal to the gains if they're greater). Then if the remaining gains are above the CGT allowance and there are losses brought forward from earlier years, deduct them until either they run out or the gains are reduced to the CGT allowance. (Any losses left undeducted at the end of this are carried forward to the next year.) 3) The remaining gains are the net taxable capital gains. They are taxed as follows: * First, an amount up to the CGT allowance is not taxed. * Second, if there are gains left after the first step (i.e. the net taxable capital gains were more than the CGT allowance), an amount up to the amount of the Income Tax basic-rate band that was not used for income in the Income Tax calculation is taxed at the lower rates. * Finally, if there are still gains left after the first two steps, they are taxed at the higher rates. So the simple case (which I would guess doesn't apply to you) is that if you're a higher-rate taxpayer (or above) as seen by Income Tax, i.e. if your Income Tax calculation takes you into higher-rate tax, it will have used your entire basic-rate band, there will be nothing left for the second step to use, and so none of your net taxable capital gains will be taxed at the lower rates. I.e. up to the CGT allowance will be untaxed, and anything over that is taxed at the higher rates. But if you're a basic-rate taxpayer as seen by Income Tax, i.e. if your Income Tax calculation takes you into basic-rate tax but not into higher-rate tax, you probably didn't use all of your basic-rate band in that calculation (not quite certainly because your taxable income might be exactly equal to the higher-rate threshold, taking you all the way through the basic-rate band but not quite into higher-rate tax). Up to the CGT allowance of net taxable capital gains is untaxed and up to your amount of unused basic-rate band is taxed at the lower rates, and anything not covered by those is taxed at the higher rates. Or if you're a non-taxpayer as seen by Income Tax, i.e. if your Income Tax calculation has all of your taxable income covered by your personal allowance and any other proper Income Tax allowances you happen to have (though see below about some 'allowances' introduced in recent years) and so doesn't take you into basic-rate tax, the same applies except that all of your basic-rate band is available, not just some of it. Note that unused allowances do not count as unused basic-rate band. In particular, unused Income Tax personal allowance is completely wasted and doesn't affect the CGT calculation, just as unused CGT allowance is completely wasted and does not affect the Income Tax calculation. So basically, it's the gains that are classified as being covered by the CGT allowance, taxed at the lower rates or taxed at the higher rates, and you could well end up having some taxed at each rate. So asking how you are classified is somewhat off-target... (*) A couple of other things to say: first, the Income Tax calculation does of course look at all your taxable income - salary, interest and dividends (unless received in an ISA or other tax shelter), pensions, etc. So the amount of salaried income you receive is not enough on its own to determine how much basic-rate band your Income Tax calculation leaves unused - and the dividends you receive do count towards taxable income. "Dividend tax" is not a different thing from Income Tax - it is Income Tax, just paid at a lower rate than for most taxable income. And secondly, the so-called 'dividend allowance' is not what I called a "proper Income Tax allowance" above, in that it doesn't prevent the dividend income it covers being counted against the tax bands: it is just an especially low tax rate of 0% that applies to the dividend income it covers. I.e. 'dividend allowance' is a rather poor description of it, since it's applied in a rather different way to the personal allowance and that different way does affect how the basic-rate band is used. And other "allowances" introduced in fairly recent years may need careful looking at to see whether something similar applies to them... (*) Note that this is little different from the situation with Income Tax - higher-rate taxpayers generally have part of their income taxed at basic rate and the rest at higher rate. So it is customary to take "higher-rate taxpayer" to mean someone in that situation, and there is a convention that one describes a taxpayer according to the highest rate of Income Tax that they pay. One could have a similar convention with regard to CGT, so that one describes someone as a "higher-rate CGT payer", a "lower-rate CGT payer" or a "CGT nonpayer" according to whether they pay CGT at the higher rates (possibly accompanied by also paying it at the lower rates), and if not, whether they pay it at the lower rates. But just as what rate of Income Tax taxpayer one is normally regarded as is an output from the Income Tax calculation, not an input to it, what rate of CGT taxpayer one is by that definition is an output from the CGT calculation, not an input to it. One needs to know all the inputs to the CGT calculation to determine it, not just the facts you give! Gengulphus
gengulphus
31/8/2019
10:20
finkwot, If I buy a convertible bond which pays interest, hold it for several years and receive the interest each year, and then convert the bond to ordinary shares, is the cost of those shares the price I paid for the bond? Or is the interest deducted, in whole or in part? I hope and suspect that the interest is treated as income, taxed in the relevant year, and has no bearing on the cost, but it's best to be sure. Can't say I have any experience with convertible bonds, but I would assume that the situation is just the same as for any other case where an investment generates income, and then later gets reorganised in some way - e.g. if a company pays dividends and then later gets taken over for shares in the acquirer rather than for cash. I.e. the income is taxed in whatever tax year it arises, with no effect on the CGT base cost of the holding (unless of course you reinvest it in the same type of share / security, in which case that's a buy with its normal effect on CGT base cost). So the answer appears to me to be that the interest is indeed treated as income, taxed in the relevant tax year, and as not affecting the CGT base cost - provided the taxation rules for convertible bond interest are the normal ones, which seems very likely to me (but that's a detail I have no experience of and so don't know for certain). Gengulphus
gengulphus
30/8/2019
20:43
American Idiot, In the 18/19 tax year I opened an Australian CFD (Contracts for difference) account with IG due to new ESMA regulations which came into force in the UK during 18/19 which meant to speculate on my UK CFD account the margin requirements / commission rates were stricter / higher. Basically, I live in the UK and speculate on UK stocks only using the CFD account opened in Australia. Have you any idea on tax treatment for this ? Very little, I'm afraid. The general principle for foreign taxation of a normal UK resident like you is that you're taxed on your worldwide income and capital gains, but if a foreign country taxes you on something and it's a tax that HMRC recognises as equivalent to Income Tax or CGT, then you can offset the foreign tax paid against that particular item of UK tax, up to the amount of UK tax (so if the foreign tax is less than the UK tax, you can offset it all, but if it's more, you can only reduce the UK tax to zero). The upshot of that is that you end up paying total tax (i.e. counting both the foreign tax and the UK tax) that is the maximum of the two amounts of tax, not their sum. Note that it must be the equivalent tax - you cannot offset foreign income tax paid against UK CGT, nor vice versa. And the foreign tax can only be offset against the UK tax on the same item of income or capital gain. E.g. if a foreign government charges income tax on a dividend paid by a share you hold in an ISA, you're out of luck: there is no UK tax on that dividend, so nothing can be offset against it, and you cannot offset it against tax on other dividends or anything else. But beyond that general principle, about all I know is that there are numerous special-case rules relating to foreign taxation, and so I can't really say anything definite about your situation. Sorry. Gengulphus
gengulphus
27/8/2019
16:37
Gengulphus-just picked up reply to my query on return from holidays so a belated thank you for your response
jacobsdad
25/8/2019
19:27
Gentlemen Retired gent opens crypto trading account makes profit 100k 19-20 tax year. What would his capital gain liability be ?
robo21
25/8/2019
18:12
A rather more important question: If I buy a convertible bond which pays interest, hold it for several years and receive the interest each year, and then convert the bond to ordinary shares, is the cost of those shares the price I paid for the bond? Or is the interest deducted, in whole or in part? I hope and suspect that the interest is treated as income, taxed in the relevant year, and has no bearing on the cost, but it's best to be sure.
finkwot
22/8/2019
13:38
If I acquire shares in a rights issue, is the date of acquisition for tax purposes the closing date for acceptance and payment, or the date the shares are issued?
finkwot
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