Share Name Share Symbol Market Type Share ISIN Share Description
Capital Gearing Trust Plc LSE:CGT London Ordinary Share GB0001738615 ORD 25P
  Price Change % Change Share Price Bid Price Offer Price High Price Low Price Open Price Shares Traded Last Trade
  -40.00p -0.93% 4,260.00p 4,260.00p 4,280.00p 4,300.00p 4,260.00p 4,300.00p 20,739 13:06:05
Industry Sector Turnover (m) Profit (m) EPS - Basic PE Ratio Market Cap (m)
Equity Investment Instruments 4.7 3.7 51.1 83.3 426

Capital Gearing Share Discussion Threads

Showing 8226 to 8248 of 8275 messages
Chat Pages: 331  330  329  328  327  326  325  324  323  322  321  320  Older
DateSubjectAuthorDiscuss
24/6/2019
19:56
That's a very helpful answer Gengulphus. Many thanks.
bunlop
24/6/2019
18:23
bunlop, I know the rules for matching share sales to purchases for CGT purposes. However I find myself with two brokers at the moment with some common holdings in both accounts. I assume that for CGT purposes they are merged and treated as if I just had one account. Is this correct? Yes. And if by any chance you have certificated shares as well, they get merged in as well. Basically, all shares of any particular type that you own outside tax shelters get treated as a single holding for CGT purposes. Note that the type of a share includes both the company that it's in and what class of share it is, which might occasionally be relevant, as there are some companies that have multiple publicly-traded types of share, such as Royal Dutch Shell with both RDSA and RDSB shares, Schroders and similar companies with both voting (SDR) and non-voting (SDRC) shares, and various companies with both ordinary and preference shares. Also note that it's beneficial ownership that counts, not legal ownership. That mainly matters for nominee accounts, where the broker's nominee company is the legal owner (essentially as trustee for you) but that doesn't let you off the CGT hook as beneficial owner, and for jointly-held shares, for which (typically) spouses own half of the shares each beneficially and so are responsible for accounting for half of the gains and losses each. Gengulphus
gengulphus
15/6/2019
19:22
I know the rules for matching share sales to purchases for CGT purposes. However I find myself with two brokers at the moment with some common holdings in both accounts. I assume that for CGT purposes they are merged and treated as if I just had one account. Is this correct? Many thanks.
bunlop
15/6/2019
18:27
Is it true that to calculate CGT on shares acquired before 31 March 1982 I have to use the price on 31 March 1982? Is this obligatory even if that is to my disadvantage? Do I take the original costs of acquisition and add them to the share price on that date? Is there any simple way to find out share prices for that date? I hope it would be easier than for other dates in 1982. Also, when did this rule come into effect? I ask because I'm working from notes prepared by someone else, and I don't know if he has recorded the original price at acquisition, or the 31/3/1982 price. If I can't find out the relevant price I may have to assume he already updated his records when the rule came in, but that depends when it happened. Thanks in advance for help with any of this.
finkwot
12/6/2019
09:29
Before I write a long question about tax implications of corporate activity going back into the 1980s, is there anywhere online I can find an archive of RNS announcements going back to 1993? Alternatively is there anywhere online I can find annual reports for Commercial Union, which disappeared under that name in 1998 and eventually became Aviva? The Aviva website is useless, and my email to them has been ignored. Edit: I have had a reply but not yet any information - I'm hopeful it will be forthcoming.
finkwot
11/4/2019
17:55
Would appreciate a little help with the following. Held shares in a company which was effectively taken over by the largest shareholder in May 2016.Incurred a significant CGT loss on the transaction. Omitted to claim the loss when I did my CGT calculations for the 2016/17 tax year. Would I be able to include this sale in my CGT calculations for the 2018/19 tax year or have I missed the boat here?
singh is king
21/2/2019
17:36
Could have died laughing....
rahosi
20/2/2019
14:11
I think the best simplification of capital gains deferred by subscribing for VCTs (before 2004) is described in https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/venture-capital-schemes-manual/vcm53140 - but I'm in no hurry to use it! ;-) Gengulphus
gengulphus
20/2/2019
12:32
I thank you! I never understand why HMRC can't give an example of the simplest of situations! I just thought after all these years, since I wasn't using all my CGT allowance this year, to simplify my historic tax position. Having said that, Trivest > IGV has been a spectacular investment. Ralph
rahosi
19/2/2019
17:53
Rahosi, What you say looks correct to me, though I've never actually brought any of the gains I've deferred with VCT investments back into charge and haven't really looked at the rules for doing so properly since I made those investments. So my actual knowledge of the rules is at least about 15 years old, since CGT deferral relief for VCTs was abolished in 2004, apart of course from previously-deferred gains remaining deferred ever since. I have however looked for HMRC material on the subject, and I'll mention the main source of it that I've found, which is https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/venture-capital-schemes-manual/vcm53000 and the pages it links to - worth mentioning just in case you haven't found them. I've skim-read them and as far as I can tell from that skim-read, they match your understanding and mine. They look very complicated, but a lot of the complexity is due to them having to deal with a lot of unusual cases and vanishes if you disregard those cases. For instance, if you were to make a copy of them and cross out (or colour grey, or whatever other way you prefer of marking material as not relevant) everything to do with not having obtained Income Tax relief and/or CGT disposal relief on some or all of the shares, I suspect over half the text would go - and a lot more would go if you did the same with regard to companies losing their VCT status, being taken over by non-VCT companies, the investor transferring the shares to their spouse, emigrating, investing more than the limit in a tax year, being a director of the VCT, and other special cases that (presumably!) don't apply to you. What it boils down to without all that special-case stuff is very simple in comparison, and provided I haven't missed anything, does boil down to what you say. Anyway, the net result of all the above is basically to say that I agree with you, but I'm not speaking from a position of vast experience on the matter. On this, regard me as someone with a similar amount of knowledge to you about the matter who has come to the same opinion, not as an expert! Gengulphus
gengulphus
18/2/2019
11:31
Gengulphus, can I please ask your advice on a VCT CGT deferral? Have read a lot of the HMRC VCT info and failing to comprehend. I invest in VCTs most years. In Jan 2001 I invested £25K (£10K net) in Trivest VCT (now The Income & Growth VCT). This year I doubt I will utilise all my £11850 CGT allowance: probably ~£8250 unused. Over the years I have received substantial dividends, but there was only an additional purchase in 2017, no disposals. As far as I understand, simply, The original purchase has 40%, £8K CGT deferred tax which, If I sold the original FIFO quantity (adjusted by merger in 2010), would become taxable, but with no tax to pay as under my annual CGT allowance. Have I got it right? Thanks, Ralph
rahosi
30/1/2019
13:55
Many thanks for your reply, Distaste it is, that's why I was wondering if the need was still there if all my trading was within a Share dealing wrapper.
gbh2
25/1/2019
16:45
Well, tax shelters include not just ISAs, but also SIPPs (and others as well, but ISAs and SIPPs are the two types that most people can open). It's only when your investments are not in any of them that they become subject to CGT - it doesn't specifically have to be an ISA. And the 4 x CGT allowance rule isn't a maximum on how much you're allowed to trade, it's just a requirement for you to complete more paperwork (or its online equivalent) if you go over it. What is stopping you from going over it is your distaste for that paperwork, not the rule itself. By the way, I do think it's a very understandable distaste, and I'd probably let my similar distaste hold me back from going over the 4 x CGT allowance limit as well if I didn't usually need to complete SA108 anyway for other reasons! Gengulphus
gengulphus
23/1/2019
19:57
Outwith an ISA there's most certainly a x4 CGT max before the Tax office requires one to fill out a sa108, it's the reason I went into a Share dealing ISA.
gbh2
22/1/2019
22:55
To the best of my knowledge there are no HMRC restrictions on the number trades in any given year. It may be possible that the provider may impose a limit but unlikly given they make their money from trade commission.
dcarn
22/1/2019
21:40
Would you please offer an opinion on the following question: Having put ones maximum annual allowable amount into a Share dealing ISA is there any restrictions on the number of buy & sells one can carry out with that ISA during the financial year? I ask because prior to having a Share Dealing ISA I had to limit the value of my total sells to a max of 4 x the CGT amount for that year or fill out a SA108.
gbh2
19/1/2019
11:21
finkwot, Incidentally, what counts as "enhancement costs" for a shareholding, or does that only apply to other types of asset? I think that if one takes up a rights issue, one's payment of the subscription counts as an "enhancement cost" (which looking at HMRC's CGT worksheet, I should probably more properly have called an "improvement cost"). I've never seen HMRC say explicitly that it is one, but they're quite clear that it doesn't count as an extra acquisition, which can be relevant for the 30-day rule: if you sell shares on e.g. May 1st and then subscribe to a May 15th rights issue, the new shares you get from subscribing to the rights don't get matched to the sale. Specifically, their helpsheet https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/share-reorganisations-company-takeovers-and-capital-gains-tax-hs285-self-assessment-helpsheet/hs285-share-reorganisations-company-takeovers-and-capital-gains-tax-2018 is quite explicit about the facts that rights issue are share reorganisations, that share reorganisations don't count as acquisitions, and that the same-day rules and 30-day rules don't apply to share reorganisations. It also says that one should add the amount subscribed to the cost of the original shares, and gives an example (example 4) showing this being done at the date of the rights issue (*), not the date of the original purchase or anything like that (which almost certainly couldn't be made to make sense anyway in complex cases, given all the things that might have happened since the original purchase). Anyway, that treatment of a rights issue subscription seems to me to be entirely consistent with the general treatment of improvement costs, and subscribing to rights is actually technically a matter of improving them from being 'nil paid' to being 'fully paid'. So I'm quite happy to treat rights issue subscriptions as improvement costs to the shareholding - but I can't say that HMRC have said that that's the right classification of them, nor that they've said any other classification is the right one. I'm quite happy to declare to them that the resulting tax returns are "complete and correct to the best of my knowledge and belief" - but the words "and belief" are definitely an important aspect of that! (*) Though somewhat annoyingly, they're not clear about exactly which date it is. There are at least four different dates that it could be: the date the company becomes committed to the rights issue (which might either be the date it is announced or a later date when it ceases to be subject to shareholder approval and/or other conditions), the date the rights are split off from the shares (i.e. the shares go ex-rights and the rights come into existence), the date the shareholder actually commits to paying the subscription, and the date the rights issue closes. They're typically spread over at least a few weeks, and while the inapplicability of the same-day and 30-day rules makes the exact date much less likely to be important, it can still be so if it affects whether a share sale took place before or after the additions to the numbers of shares in and cost of the Section 104 pool. I think the answer is that it's the date the rights are split off from the shares - but that's only because on detailed consideration of a quite a few hypothetical situations, it's the date that produces the most sensible (IMHO) results, not because I've found anything HMRC have said officially about the answer. But I'm not confident about that answer, since producing sensible results is by no means an infallible guide to questions about tax rules. So what I do in practice is give that date in my CGT computations, but carefully avoid making sales on the range of dates around a rights issue where the answer would make a difference to the CGT computations. I.e. the worst I get wrong in the computations is a date that is not the date of any capital gain/loss, not the amounts or dates of any gains/losses. HMRC have never questioned me about any such dates, by the way, but I read very little into that, because the fact that CGT computations can be submitted in any format one feels appropriate very strongly suggests that they're only looked at by humans, not computers, and thus that they'll only be looked at at all if HMRC happens to pick one's tax return out for detailed examination by a human. There's definitely a nonzero chance of that happening, as HMRC pick some tax returns for detailed examination completely randomly - but their limited manpower means that it must be a pretty low chance. Gengulphus
gengulphus
15/1/2019
13:08
Gengulphus, thanks for the detailed response. I normally use CGTCalculator.com to work out my tax for share dealings (which handles this section 104 stuff for me) but this year my CFDs and share dealings have exceeded the CGT allowance. I think the easiest is to group all the CFD and Share dealings in date order and paste the block into CGTCalculator to do the workings out so l can actually fill in my tax form with all the details needed. Thankfully CFD interest could l guess be part of the commission as this eats into the capital gains per HMRC examples and CFD dividends add to the capital gains.
smurfy2001
15/1/2019
12:20
You're probably right, and if I had thought of it before I started I might have done something more on those lines. I did go back to the beginning on one of the more complex calculations, to see how it would look, but errors kept creeping in and I gave up. We've provided all the data in its place (breakdown of acquisition costs at the point of acquisition), and the final data to match the boxes on the page for listing computations that didn't use the HMRC worksheet. We'll submit it as it is and see what they say. Incidentally, what counts as "enhancement costs" for a shareholding, or does that only apply to other types of asset?
finkwot
15/1/2019
11:38
smurfy2001, Anyone know if CFDs are exempt from the bed and breakfast rule? CFDs are not something I have any real experience of, but the general principle about the share identification rules (which include the '30-day' or 'anti-bed-and-breakfasting' rule) is expressed in HMRC's Capital Gains manual, specifically in https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/capital-gains-manual/cg51500 : "One feature of shares is that unless they are numbered, and most shares are not, all shares of the same class in the same company are identical. The problem this causes can be illustrated quite easily. In 2010 Mr A bought 1,000 shares in B PLC at a price of £2.50 per share. He bought a further 500 shares in 2005 at £3 per share. He has now spent £4,000 on 1,500 shares. In 2010 he sold 250 shares for £4 each. To work out the capital gain you need to know which shares the taxpayer sold and how much they cost. The issue does not just arise with shares but with any assets that are not distinguishable from each other or are dealt with as if they are. The share identification rules therefore also apply to such assets TCGA92/S104(1)(3)(ii). Se CG11820. The rules also even if in practice the separate assets are identifiable, say by their numbers, TCGA92/S104(1). This chapter deals with the special rules ..." (Rather more detail is available in the section of the manual introduced by that - see the pages linked to by https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/capital-gains-manual/cg51500c - but unfortunately nothing specifically about CFDs that I've spotted. There is also a small amount in the manual about CFDs, in https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/capital-gains-manual/cg56100 and https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/capital-gains-manual/cg56101 , but it looks silent on the question of whether the share identification rules apply to them.) I'm not really certain what the third paragraph of that quote is meant to convey, but my best guess is that it's saying that if a particular type of asset is in general not individually identifiable, then it doesn't matter whether one can prove where it came from in a specific case. For instance, if in the example in the first paragraph, Mr A happened to have made the first purchase in his account with broker X and his second purchase in his account with a different broker Y, and he sold the shares from the broker X account (and had not made any transfers of the shares in or out of the broker X account over the period concerned), he can actually prove that the shares he sold came from the first purchase and not the second. But the rules don't care - they'll still treat the shares sold as coming from a Section 104 'pool' of 1500 shares bought for £4,000. Anyway, quite a long time ago I read somewhere that some CFD providers give their CFDs individual serial numbers and all transactions in them identify the specific CFDs traded by their serial numbers, while others just have some standard types and one just buys and sells however many one wants without identifying them specifically, as with shares. And that this determines whether the share identification rules apply to them. I'm afraid I can't point to where I read it, I have no real idea about how authoritative it was and even if it was an accurate answer, it was probably 10 or more years ago so could well be well out of date by now! But it does seem to be consistent with the HMRC material I've quoted above. Gengulphus
gengulphus
15/1/2019
10:32
finkwot, This is an observation rather than a question, though further observations are welcome. I'm quite aware that I'm stumbling my way through a thicket blindfold. On the worksheet for simple calculations they ask for gross disposal proceeds incidental disposal costs acquisition cost incidental costs of acquisition On my own workings for complex calculations I've provided all the data but in writing out the relevant figures for each disposal I've only provided the total acquisition cost without breaking it down. I've provided the breakdown of disposal into gross proceeds and costs. In simple cases it would be easy to provide all the figures, but in complex cases it's really not feasible. I'm assuming because I have provided all the data as it arises during the workings I'm ok doing it like this. I also think my position is borne out by the wording of the law at Http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1992/12/section/38/enacted I think you're probably right about it being unnecessary, but don't feel entirely certain because it's the sort of thing that might be in secondary legislation / regulations. Satisfying oneself that something is not in primary legislation is hard enough, doing the same for secondary legislation / regulations I give up on! So I basically include all the details I input into my spreadsheets in my submitted computations. That includes the breakdown of every specific transaction's final total into acquisition costs, enhancement costs, incidental costs and disposal proceeds (some of which will be zero for any particular transaction), as well as the final total itself - it's a bit more input work than the bare essentials (disposal proceeds and incidental costs for sales, final total for purchases, as you say), but (a) I like to be able to keep an eye on the incidental costs anyway, if only out of curiosity about how low I'm keeping them; (b) I've found the protection it gives against typos while inputting the data and other inadvertent errors very valuable. Basically, the spreadsheet includes a check that (final total) = (disposal proceeds) - (acquisition costs) - (enhancement costs) - (incidental costs) with the appropriate sign, and if it doesn't, conditional formatting highlights the mistake with an eye-catching red background. This alerts me to the mistake immediately, so I know which transaction is in error and I've still got its details in front of me, making it very little work to correct it. I haven't really found tracking that breakdown through the subsequent computations very difficult - I just add up, apportion, etc, each category separately, with a little bit of care taken in the spreadsheet formulae to make certain that nothing goes missing because of rounding effects (things like 1.5 + 1.5 = 3.0 rounding to 2 + 2 = 3 are a bit aggravating if they're allowed to get through...). That did require a bit of care originally to get the spreadsheet formulae exactly right, but once that was done, it just became a matter of "I need to do an apportionment, so use my standard apportionment formulae". The breakdown of incidental costs into those for the acquisition and those for the disposal can get blurred in the process - there's just one incidental costs column in my spreadsheet - but each original transaction does have its incidental costs declared, so it matches what HMRC's worksheet does in the simple cases... And just to be clear, this isn't intended as the answer to a question, nor as saying what I think the requirements are - just as observations about what I personally choose to do. Gengulphus
gengulphus
14/1/2019
16:22
Edit. I've removed this question about payments on account to HMRC as I've found relevant material here: Https://www.gov.uk/understand-self-assessment-bill/payments-on-account I ought to have checked online first, but I was a bit shocked at the demand. I'll come back if necessary.
finkwot
13/1/2019
23:38
Anyone know if CFDs are exempt from the bed and breakfast rule?
smurfy2001
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