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CGT Capital Gearing Trust Plc

-5.00 (-0.11%)
20 Feb 2024 - Closed
Delayed by 15 minutes
Share Name Share Symbol Market Type Share ISIN Share Description
Capital Gearing Trust Plc LSE:CGT London Ordinary Share GB0001738615 ORD 25P
  Price Change % Change Share Price Shares Traded Last Trade
  -5.00 -0.11% 4,640.00 98,630 16:35:19
Bid Price Offer Price High Price Low Price Open Price
4,635.00 4,640.00 4,645.00 4,630.00 4,630.00
Industry Sector Turnover Profit EPS - Basic PE Ratio Market Cap
Unit Inv Tr, Closed-end Mgmt -43.51M -51.39M -2.0010 -23.16 1.19B
Last Trade Time Trade Type Trade Size Trade Price Currency
16:38:59 AT 14 4,640.00 GBX

Capital Gearing (CGT) Latest News

Capital Gearing (CGT) Discussions and Chat

Capital Gearing Forums and Chat

Date Time Title Posts
19/2/202414:08Capital Gearing – A Perfect Trust107
18/1/202417:25CAPITAL GAINS TAX - with links to resources1,237
01/7/202311:14CAPITAL GAINS TAX6,939
23/1/201222:40Trading tax effieciently from abroad-
21/2/201110:20HELP - CAPITAL GAINS TAX7

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Capital Gearing (CGT) Most Recent Trades

Trade Time Trade Price Trade Size Trade Value Trade Type
2024-02-20 16:38:594,640.0014649.60AT
2024-02-20 16:38:594,640.0034716,100.80AT
2024-02-20 16:38:594,640.0022610,486.40AT
2024-02-20 16:35:194,640.001,21056,144.00UT
2024-02-20 16:23:364,635.00292.70AT

Capital Gearing (CGT) Top Chat Posts

Top Posts
Posted at 20/2/2024 08:20 by Capital Gearing Daily Update
Capital Gearing Trust Plc is listed in the Unit Inv Tr, Closed-end Mgmt sector of the London Stock Exchange with ticker CGT. The last closing price for Capital Gearing was 4,645p.
Capital Gearing currently has 25,682,435 shares in issue. The market capitalisation of Capital Gearing is £1,190,380,862.
Capital Gearing has a price to earnings ratio (PE ratio) of -23.16.
This morning CGT shares opened at 4,630p
Posted at 19/2/2024 14:08 by spectoacc
"The 101p gain to £46.36 puts the shares back close to the 2% discount at which they stood at the end of October when an administrative error delayed the reclassification of its share premium account into distributable reserves."

So perhaps a little more to go still.
Posted at 14/2/2024 12:14 by spectoacc
OK I didn't read this:

"The Order of the Court approving the cancellation (the "Order") will only become
effective once it has been registered with the Registrar of Companies in
Northern Ireland. The Order is in the process of being submitted for filing with
the Registrar of Companies and is expected to be registered shortly.

The Board will make a further announcement to the market in due course to
confirm the date on which the current operational restrictions on share buybacks
under the DCP will be lifted."

So I assume the buy backs still aren't able to be done in the size to get it back within a % or two of NAV.

In which case, there's surely easy money to be had here - but less so when considering stamp/spread.
Posted at 18/1/2024 17:25 by red nutter
Doing my self assessment.1st time with profit on shares for the year. Was a £10k investment. Is well within the £12k cgt limit. Do I still need to show on tax return as no cgt is due?
Posted at 14/11/2023 19:44 by spectoacc
Citywire, fwiw:

I'm rarely in the wealth preservers, and delighted not to be the past couple of years, but had the great pleasure of meeting Jonathan Ruffer this week, albeit not to talk investing unfortunately. RICA's the only one I've currently a small holding in.

If I can get over disappointment at the performance of RICA/CGT/PNL, I'm likely to see CGT's discount widening out as an opportunity. Yes, they may never reign it back in, but should they? I don't see the point of buying back your shares at par - why not buy them back at a discount and improve NAV? Imagine if they come back in great size when the discount is say 10%.

Maybe that's the discount tail wagging the investment case dog. But I like their vast allocation to US TIPs - surely the wealth preservers can't underperform forever. And it really is underperformance - some of the benchmarks (like RPI+) are being missed by country miles.

Dangerous to make predictions, especially about the future (H/t Yogi Berra), but a rally into Xmas to sell into, then a tricky decision on now to position for next year, that surely has either direct holdings of Linkers/TIPs/Gilts/Treasuries, or CGT/RICA/PNL.
Posted at 31/10/2023 17:14 by topvest
It will certainly be interesting to see what happens here when they can't control the discount. They only bought 6k today. Peter Spiller is a great chap, but he must be incredibly frustrated with all of this. The RNS implies someone might have made some administrative errors, either at CGT or at the legal end. Not a great positive for NI being, maybe the only, Northern Ireland based listed company. I had a look at the Annual Report for last year and there was no mention of this as a risk or anything. It was not mentioned in the buy-back risk section. I guess the speed of the buy-backs and doom has caught them out...big time! When the markets lose confidence in the discount control mechanism, it will be difficult to regain confidence. The buy-back early in 2024 may have to be huge, which sadly could endanger this fantastic trust. The clock is ticking for performance to improve!
Posted at 31/10/2023 16:20 by rambutan2
You gotta larf!
The N Irish court service doesn't believe in speed, as they should have known.
A number of managers must be sorely tempted to short CGT purely out of spite.
A big pile of steaming humble pie must be on the menu for Peter Perfect...
Posted at 31/10/2023 15:26 by topvest
For a trust focused on good governance it's a really big own goal. I think it will be difficult to recover from this, if they can't get performance positive by the end of the year. It will weaken their position lobbying other trusts. They will have to increase buy-backs massively if they end up with a big discount and another negative result. Not good. It's put me off buying now until the share price weakness starts to reverse.
Posted at 01/7/2023 11:08 by sleveen1

"Jon Skint Smith 4 Sep '01 - 16:14
0 0 0
Does anyone know of or use any software that is capable of calculating CGT liability for share transaction including all the latest rules etc?"

Thread started in 2001 for CGT.

The capital gearing trust is here:

With a grand total of 87 posts from 2004.
Posted at 16/10/2021 11:27 by gengulphus

... the following info came from CGT calculator. I suspect something is going wrong in CGT calculator.

I'm practically certain that something is going wrong in CGTcalculator, because of two obviously wrong bits of information in the extra output you've provided. The first that struck me was:

Total number of trades = 7
Total number of buys = 4
Total number of sells = 3

There are 7 trades in your input, but they comprise 4 buys, 2 sells and a rights issue. So it looks as if CGTcalculator is counting the rights issue as a sell, not a buy. It's actually neither a sell nor a buy - but it's a lot closer to being a buy than a sell! It differs from a buy only in that unlike a buy, it cannot be matched to a sell under the same-day or 30-day rules (something that only rarely makes a difference, and doesn't for your example), but from a sell in that it absorbs cash and adds shares rather than the other way around (something which will always make a difference).

This led me to check the rest of the information more carefully, and in the "INFORMATION FOR TAX RETURN" section, I saw "Disposals = 2". Those are clearly the two sells, so CGTcalculator seems to be treating the rights issue as a sell that is not a disposal...

But the first sell has disposal proceeds of 2842*£3.90729 = £11,104.52 and the second 60333*£1.06330 = £64,152.08 (note that their commissions of £6.95 each don't enter into their "Disposal Proceeds" calculations, but instead into the "Allowable Costs" calculations). Rounding those down to whole numbers of pounds, that produces total disposal proceeds for the two sells of £11,104+£64,152 = £75,256, which is £14,851 short of the £90,107 disposal proceeds reported by CGTcalculator. And £14,851 is exactly the result of the disposal proceeds calculation to the rights issue data (46410*£0.32000 = £14,851.20) and rounding down to a whole number of pounds.

So it appears that CGTcalculator is treating the rights issue as a sell that is not a disposal but does have disposal proceeds, when it clearly doesn't have any such proceeds... I'm afraid I cannot help beyond identifying that inconsistency - that requires me to be able to see the full details of CGTcalculator's internal calculations, which I am not. Sorry incidentally that my last post suggested that you might be able to provide them. I was working from a memory that those were available from CGTcalculator that turns out to have been false - I think it's actually something provided by the Stonebanks calculator rather than by CGTcalculator (but I'm afraid I don't think the Stonebanks calculator would solve your problem, because I cannot see that it has any facility to input rights issues).

So that's basically as far as I can go - CGTcalculator's author is presumably the only person who can provide more details of how CGTcalculator is doing the calculations and/or correct any problems with them.

If you want a work-around for the problem, though, I'd suggest you search your CGTcalculator input data for rights issues, and then check each rights issue for sales of the same type of share on the same day or in the preceding 30 days. If there isn't any such sale, change the "Rights" line to a "Buy" line (and append a note to the CGTcalculator output saying something like "The 09/11/2020 buy is actually shares obtained from a rights issue, but treating it as a buy does not alter how it is matched to share sales"). If there is such a sale, extract all the data for that company and do the calculation by hand - but given that rights issues are quite rare and it still requires some bad luck to have sold the same type of share on the same day or in the preceding 30 days, that case shouldn't happen at all often (hopefully not at all).

Posted at 23/9/2020 18:00 by gengulphus
Does anyone else out there think CGT might be an easy target for the chancellor in his quest to fill the financial black hole caused by Covid?

I don't. A target, quite possibly - but not an easy target... It's not easy because to a large extent, CGT is a voluntary tax - make changes designed to raise more CGT from investors, and investors are likely to respond by changing their strategies to be more likely to hold on to investments carrying a large unrealised capital gain rather than selling them and realising the gain... Doing that won't always be possible - sometimes people need the cash or the sale is compulsory for one reason or another - but I suspect there will be plenty who shift to a long-term buy & hold strategy if CGT becomes a serious burden...

Also, the investors most likely to want not to do that are those who use shorter-term 'trading' strategies. But many of them will have bought their shares last year and so will be sitting on plenty of unrealised losses, not gains...

He might remove the £12300 allowance, he might increase rates, he might do both.

Removing the CGT allowance strikes me as very unlikely, at least as things stand. Why? Because then everybody who makes even a small capital gain becomes liable to account for CGT, either in a tax return or using some sort of adjustment to their tax code - but that adjustment is likely to change every year, in a hard-to-predict way, so would require some sort of annual return from the taxpayer anyway. Either way, there would be a big increase in the number of CGT returns HMRC would need to process, quite often for very small amounts of tax collected - so removing the CGT allowance entirely would probably not be cost-effective because of high collection costs relative to the amount of tax collected. And in addition, it would also have high political costs for the government - a CGT return is a distinctly user-unfriendly bit of bureaucracy and making large numbers of voters do them who hadn't had to before is likely to alienate a considerable number of voters!

That said, I do think reducing the CGT allowance might be an option for the Chancellor. E.g. halving it rather than removing it entirely would affect far fewer taxpayers and would tend to be focussed on those with the largest capital gains among those who currently don't pay CGT, as well as producing a substantial increase in CGT collected from those who do currently pay CGT. That's more likely to be cost-effective from the Chancellor's point of view, both with regard to collection costs and political costs.

And increasing CGT rates is also an option. But both reducing the allowance and increasing rates are going to be limited in terms of how much they're likely to raise, due to the 'largely a voluntary tax' nature of CGT mentioned above.

Various parts of that assume that the structure of CGT and collecting it remain largely as they are at present, and there are possibilities available for more fundamental revisions of CGT that would change the argument. For instance, brokers cannot currently give definitive statements about what capital gains and losses have been realised by sales in a broker account they provide, because if the accountholder has other holdings of a share (either certificated or held with another broker), CGT rules require the capital gains and losses to be calculated from the merged transaction record for all the holdings, not separately for each holding and the results added together. If CGT were revised to work on a 'separately on each holding and add together' basis, it would become possible for brokers to produce definitive CGT statements, and therefore for the government to require them to do so. And if that were done, CGT returns by individual taxpayers could become just a matter of taking the figures from each broker they use and adding them up - much as they handle dividends at present. That would be likely to reduce the costs significantly, both collection costs and political costs.

Another example of a fundamental revision that might be attractive to the Chancellor is finding some way to tax all gains, whether realised or not (though the attractiveness of that might not be all that high at present, given recent losses...). But both of these fundamental revisions have a whole mass of practical detail to be designed - for example, how are transfers from one broker to another handled? how are certificated holdings handled? what happens if someone has big unrealised gains on shares that for some reason they cannot sell? and many others...

So while fundamental reform of the CGT system might be a way for the Chancellor to effectively target CGT as a source of significant extra tax revenues, I'm pretty sure it's not an easy way for him to do so.

Capital Gearing share price data is direct from the London Stock Exchange

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