Camellia Share Discussion Threads

[chrisdgb] 27/9/2023 09:53

eeeeeeeeuuuuuuuuuuuuugggggggggghhhhhhhh

[piedro] 19/9/2023 20:35

BYE BYE
You will all be glad to know that there is
no point in my continuing to post on this
board.

[crumppot] 19/9/2023 06:29

Basket case

[piedro] 19/9/2023 00:31

First consignment of Kenyan avocados leaves for India


Anyone still interested in this business?

LOL,
DYOR

[crumppot] 07/9/2023 15:26

They are selling off all the best bits, leaving the least profitable parts. When the get cash in I am frightened as to the company buying more low profit agricultural businesses.

Give the shareholders a bigger annual dividend and a special one and the company might have a chance of being rerated by the market.

[cjohn] 07/9/2023 15:17

Hi 1tx, yes, I'm aware of the very special nature of Camellia. And, of course, they have to do right by the employees. Still the tea estates are losing money hand over fist and they are the assets that should be sold off, if any. You're right too that the tea estates are probably over-valued on the balance sheet.

Hello Piedro, thank you for your witty reply. I will bear in mind your poetic image of pruning and re-growth.

My own feeling is that they are pruning the wrong bits: could that not kill the ailing plant? Might not unfortunate grafts - Bardsley - also damage the plant?

It doesn't seem to me that before buying they realised Bardsley was a sick plant.

Anyway, thank you for your various posts with agricultural detail. I appreciate your specialised knowledge.

[piedro] 07/9/2023 11:27

CJohn,
I am pleased to read that you and your mates do understand the
direction the company is going and yes they are destroying asset
value.

The process is known as pruning and can be very damaging.
The company has so much 'canker' and 'dead wood' that many
surgeries will need be carried out in stages so as not to
destroy it.

What you and others would like to happen is for them to sell off
the agricultural asset {at knock down prices} and give you the
monies - that's what the lawyers do when serving testaments.

As 1tx rightly says, the company has obligations to their
employees and families and have clearly stated them as being one
of their long term goals.

All these bits of properties, collections and junk companies are
being gradually reorganised or dispatched.

Regarding Bardsley, they have picked a rundown company and are
applying the 'pruning' principles for which they may claim now
to be experts.
As an example, take Kakuzi which was being criticized by all and
sundry and has become a revamped and profitable company.

Regards the tea estates, there was an interesting article of how
they are adapting. It has been going on for many many years with
small mentions here and there in the Annual Reports.

So that's it. Like it or not, it's what's been and is happening
to your company.

In the gardening world, the outcome of 'root and branch pruning'
is that the plant becomes rejuvenated, more productive and longer
living.

One day you may wake up to find that the grub has become a beautiful
butterfly

AIMHO, BWDIK {a simple farmer} & GLA.

[1tx] 06/9/2023 19:28

I think the problem is the core agricultural product is tea,mainly in Bangladesh & India.It is very difficult to make a profit tea prices have not kept up with cost increases for years presently it is very difficult in Bangladesh with huge inflation for low paid workers.I don't think there are buyers for the plantations and even if they are I doubt if they are anywhere near book price and I think the company has a duty to its employees to ensure any buyer is reputable & has the ability to maintain at least present conditions.The company has been operating here for 150 years.It is rather more difficult than selling a farming estate in the Cotswolds

I had hoped that the company would sell off its surplus assets;Bermuda,Linton Park etc and deploy these assets profitably which would justify a higher than present price but I now have my doubts....

[cjohn] 05/9/2023 10:12

Piedro4 Sep '23 - 11:07 - 503 of 505

It is quite obvious that most contributors here do not or do not wish
to understand the changes that are happening with this company.

Comments like this from our agricultural expert ...

"You claim "expertise" in running large agricultural estates, but they are
still making significant losses."

... are unhelpful and misleading





1.Actually, those comments are factual. They do say they are experts at running large agricultural estates in the interims. And I take that at face value. The problem is that the agricultural businesses are intrinsically low margin and therefore often unprofitable.

Again, that isn't a matter of opinion: the interim report tells us that adjusted operating loss before tax for Agriculture increased 42% to 12.8m sterling.

And we can break that down a little:

Tea: trading loss of 11.2m
Nuts and fruit: trading loss of 2.8m
Other agriculture: trading profit of 0.3m




The other issue is that they may be good at running agricultural estates, but they are poor at capital allocation. And this is why it would be best to return any capital realised from sales to shareholders.





2. We have a strong coterie of full-time value investors commenting on this board. I do not claim to be an "agricultural expert" - thank you for your kind words - but I am very experienced at analysing companies and understanding value and have made a living from doing so for many years, like others on here.

So it's not a question of NOT understanding the direction the Company is going in: it's that we DO understand the direction the Company is going in and see it as destroying shareholder value.

[russman] 04/9/2023 19:09

The Chairman has mismanaged our capital for a number of years.

[crumppot] 04/9/2023 12:03

The share price has halved in the last 5 years and is nowhere near the NAV. They should increase the dividend to try and improve the share price

[piedro] 04/9/2023 10:07

It is quite obvious that most contributors here do not or do not wish
to understand the changes that are happening with this company.

Comments like this from our agricultural expert ...

"You claim "expertise" in running large agricultural estates, but they are
still making significant losses."

... are unhelpful and misleading

The company has clearly stated their intentions and have been putting them in
practice since the previous CEO.



DYOR and GLA

[crumppot] 04/9/2023 09:43

The board don't think about value to shareholders, it feels like an excessive in empire building

[cjohn] 04/9/2023 08:44

As to the "poison pill" defence to the sale of BF and M, I would be unhappy about that if I felt the Board were competent allocators of capital. Or were intending to return all cash from sale to shareholders.

Unfortunately, we are likely to see the $100m cash proceeds wasted on further no-hope acquisitions in low margin agri-businesses.

[cjohn] 04/9/2023 08:41

I've just read the results.

From the section labelled "Strategy", there is the following wonderful quote,

"As previously stated, the Group may sell certain less liquid, non-income generating or under-performing assets in order to fund strategically important acquisitions and investments."


If only they really did this.

Which are the assets which are "under-performing"? Yes, indeed, it's the agricultural assets. It's the tea estates. It's macadamia. it's blueberries, it's the bloody apples they wasted tens of millions of shareholders' money on.

Come on, board, read your own report.

You claim "expertise" in running large agricultural estates, but they are still making significant losses. Why is that? It's because the agri-businesses are very low or negative margin and subject to numerous unforeseeable vicissitudes of climate, pests etc. High-risk, low-margin.

It's totally depressing to see that further investment is to be made into "the under-performing asset" of Bardsley.

[russman] 02/9/2023 06:19

" the group is expected to record a single digit adjusted loss for the year."
not an accounting term I am familiar with.

[crumppot] 01/9/2023 12:21

They should liquidate the co and give the money to the shareholders

[1tx] 01/9/2023 12:18

Well put Eric!!

[pireric] 01/9/2023 08:59

Sometimes the value is just too deep and not worth digging for, and when the actual company strategy is so low returns on capital, that it becomes fundamentally not worth the effort to even bother investing

Eric

[chrisdgb] 01/9/2023 07:53

crazy company.........

[pireric] 01/9/2023 06:12

"Sale of non-core associate announced: BF&M for $100m, subject to regulatory and tax approvals. However, BF&M has implemented a shareholder rights agreement, the implications of which continue to be examined in detail by Camellia. Discussions are ongoing to ascertain BF&M's concerns as regards the sale of our shares to Argus."

Eric

[piedro] 31/8/2023 23:18

The Interim Results should be out any day.

[piedro] 31/8/2023 08:40

This may be of interest as The Goodricke Group is an important part of Camellia ...

INDUSTRY ANALYSIS
How Darjeeling Tea Planters Are Coping with Climate Change
Aug 21, 2023

[piedro] 25/8/2023 13:24

Kakuzi Interim Report {full}

[1tx] 22/8/2023 15:44

I see the Rightmove listing for Linton Park indicates mortgage repayments would be £188,209 per month on a 25 year term if you put down a 10% deposit based on £32m asking price........