Byotrol Share Discussion Threads

[sikhthetech] 22/10/2021 15:44

In terms of competitors...

P&G's Microban 24 is well advertised on tv and widely available...

6x750ml bottles for £7.59 on Amazon
or £1.25 per 750ml bottle...

free delivery by Monday, not 1-2 months time as is the case with Hycolin 24.




Or £2 each at Ocado.

So just over 1/2 price of Hycolyn 24 and delivered by Monday.




1gw - 14 Oct 2021 - 14:14:03 - 8877 of 8920 BYOTROL-CAN DELIVER AMAZING RESULTS
Hycolin 24 on Amazon has now moved from "Temporarily out of stock" to "Usually dispatched within 1 to 2 months".

Nevertheless I have ordered some, with estimated delivery "Oct 30 - Nov 26".

£13.37 for 6x750ml bottles & free delivery (with Prime) is a very good price vs alternatives I have seen for either hycolin 24 or byotrol 4-in-1.

[1gw] 22/10/2021 14:16

You're still getting confused there, I think, sikhthetech between the products (intermediate level disinfectants) being licensed for use in the Cache system, which are there to replace chemistries that are under threat, and the new combinatorial product (Actizone + ClO2) that is the one both sides accept is new and may take some time to win market share.

[sikhthetech] 22/10/2021 13:30

"This from Tristel's 23rd March 2020 RNS:"

And 6 months later tristel gave the following answers re Byot.



sikhthetech - 06 Feb 2021 - 15:05:19 - 7555 of 8917 BYOTROL-CAN DELIVER AMAZING
Loaf
"Tristel can then use their international sale force to leverage up the Byotrol offering. Something Byotrol are just never going to be able to do alone."

Has there been a change to Tristel's stance on Byotrol partnership?

As Tristel commented in Sept, only a few months ago, the challenge here is whether the product is going to be a commercial success.

Tstl stated the position perfectly regarding tech and commercial success.


"The challenge we face with our partner Byotrol is essentially one of marketing communication: messaging. Today, UK hospitals use Jet because it is a high-performance, fast-acting biocide, effective against bacterial spores and compliant with every European legal requirement for disinfectants within one standard contact time of 1 minute, that is easy and convenient to use, and priced competitively to
pre-wetted wipes incorporating far less effective disinfectant chemistries."

"The intermediate level disinfectant formulation that has also been licensed from Byotrol will sit in one or more of the Cache Collection SKUs, alongside other formulation offers that come from our own stable of non-CLO2 chemistries. The Byotrol intermediate level formulation is very well-documented and supported by their technical team. "

"We are enthusiastic for the combinatorial proposition but it is important that we set expectations sensibly (we follow with interest the excitable dialogue on the share chat rooms): this is not a gamechanging technological advance for Tristel plc. The grounded truth is that with our partner Byotrol we have created something unique from a chemistry perspective"
" The commercial success of that proposition will take a long time to
determine."

[1gw] 22/10/2021 11:57

microscope, I'm not suggesting that Tristel are looking to take on anything new. I'm suggesting that they are a perfect example of what was talked about at the 2019 AGM, before the pandemic struck. Companies that have existing products which they know are going to fall foul of the tightening regulations are faced with a decision as to whether they want:
(1) to go to the trouble of reformulating them to be compliant with the tighter regulations and going through the regulatory hurdles for the reformulated product; or
(2) to license someone else's product that is already compliant or that the other company will undertake to keep compliant; or
(3) to sell the rights to the products (or to sell the company) to someone who will then reformulate or replace the products; or
(4) to discontinue the products.

Tristel has decided to go route (2) for its Cache range, licensing 2 of byotrol's products. It is talking about discontinuing some of the non-hospital products, although doesn't say if regulatory issues are a factor in that decision.

My post below, following the 2019 AGM, was based on a conversation there about the possibility of byotrol buying either product brands or companies in this sort of situation, as an alternative to out-licensing a byotrol product. The customer tends to stick with the product/brand and so long as the claims and the performance don't get worse, the customer doesn't tend to mind if they have a "new, improved formulation" as a result of someone else buying either the company selling the product or the rights to the product/brand and reformulating it.

------------------------------------------
1gw - 16 Nov 2019 - 10:12:03 - 3863 of 8916
...
They continue to make the point about weaker competitors struggling as regulations start to bite. While that provides obvious opportunities to license technology I would not be surprised to see some actual consolidation take place (i.e. acquisition by byotrol), funded hopefully by byotrol's cash balances rather than issue of shares, unless there is a material recovery in the shareprice first. How the market reacts to such a catalyst will depend on how well byotrol can sell the business logic and price paid when they make any announcement...

[microscope] 22/10/2021 11:24

Thanks 1gw. By their own admission the year reported on was 'disappointing' and I think their comments pretty clearly suggest they're not looking to take on anything new and indeed to cut back on existing alternative products.On the plus side they did tentatively suggest the market has stabilized somewhat which would be in keeping with Byotrol's own comments.However they did seem reluctant to make future projections. Uncertainty over what politicians will come up with next in terms of lockdowns or the NHS make it difficult for anyone I think to be confident about the coming months.

[1gw] 22/10/2021 09:01

microscope - I don't think that came up specifically, but DT did again make reference to regulatory tightening causing problems for a number of companies, which should present opportunities for byotrol. We know Tristel has already licensed from byotrol 2 products for its Cache hospital surface disinfection range because of regulatory issues it is facing in its non chlorine dioxide chemistries. This from Tristel's 23rd March 2020 RNS:

"The Byotrol products and formulations give Tristel access to intermediate level disinfectants that are effective against bacteria, viruses and yeasts in accordance with the requirements of European Test Norms. The disinfectants will be for use in hospitals and will conform with the requirements of the European Biocidal Products Registration (BPR), and the United Kingdom equivalent that will come into force post Brexit. As this legislation is implemented throughout the United Kingdom and Europe during the coming years various active ingredients that are commonly incorporated in hospital grade disinfectants will be withdrawn from use. Tristel has previously incorporated some of these active ingredients in the intermediate level disinfectants that it presents to hospitals alongside its high-performance chlorine dioxide disinfectants. The Agreement will ensure that Tristel will continue to comply fully with the future regulatory environment that will govern the manufacture and sale of disinfectants for surface disinfection."

It could be that Tristel's reference to "draw upon our resources disproportionately" in the bit you quote is to do with this regulatory burden. As to margin and relative contribution to financial objectives, byotrol and Tristel are different companies. I think byotrol has chosen to outlicense (to SC Johnson and Tristel) for the hospital sector precisely because it sees that as a more efficient way of serving that sector, given the resources available to it.

[football] 22/10/2021 08:46

I Ran A Stock Scan For Earnings Growth And Byotrol (LON:BYOT) Passed With Ease

[microscope] 21/10/2021 22:07

Thank you 1gw and football for the AGM reports (voted up).

1gw mentioned Tristel. Wondering if this was asked, or mentioned, about from their (Tristel's) comments as to whether it had implications for Byotrol?

"The remainder of our revenues derived from other chemistries and sectors outside of the hospital which we consider to be non-core, and it is our intention to discontinue many of these products in the current financial year because they are lower margin than our chlorine dioxide products and draw upon our resources disproportionately to the contribution they make to our financial and strategic objectives."

[the ghost who walks] 21/10/2021 17:31

Also given the predictability of the ip min payments, we can use debt In Addition to the cash we have.Another catalyst

[the ghost who walks] 21/10/2021 17:31

I took away from the last call that acquisitions are definitely on the cards. I'd love to see it.

[1gw] 21/10/2021 17:07

Who said they're not going to buy anything? They want cash to fund investment and possible acquisition. There's a lot of technologies/products they want to invest in and we're also back (after perhaps a bit of a pandemic-related hiatus) on the path of tightening regulations which they think will present opportunities for both out-licensing and acquisition. DT said he thought that cash was going to be important over the next few years - presumably because of the optionality that gives.

[football] 21/10/2021 16:36

Question. If we have all this money in the bank( £3m+) and not got to buy anything or pay a divi why not do a share buy back and put them into Treasury and sell them to any II's that want to buy in without any dilution

[sikhthetech] 20/10/2021 20:07

The Ghost
"I actually don’t mind that they aren’t worried about shar eprice short term"

They should be delivering, they should be consistent with their delivery/communications and not just enthusiastic about the next time.

Last year they DID have a TU with the AGM statement. This was a few weeks after the Investor Presentation.
Therefore there is no reason for not having one this time as well.


25/09/20:
Investor Presentation



13/11/20: AGM statement WITH A TU.

[the ghost who walks] 20/10/2021 19:55

Great feedback again, thanks.I actually don't mind that they aren't worried about shar eprice short term, deliver medium term and we get a multiple of here

[1gw] 20/10/2021 19:01

For the avoidance of doubt, the message was essentially "nothing to report" on the near-term guidance. There was no new presentation as they had given a very comprehensive one in September (which apparently some shareholders had objected to as giving away too much commercially sensitive information), and in the discussion (product sales) revenue guidance was essentially repeated. I didn't note down the exact words but it was a quarter by quarter summary similar to the description given at IMC, which I did note down as:
1Q: Poor
2Q: Getting better
3Q: Looking OK
4Q: Expecting to be quite good

In this context DT referred to the recent Tristel trading update as providing some comfort in terms of them seeing the same sort of things in the market as byotrol is seeing.

However, while it is interesting to know how they see the revenue outlook, the profit position is going to be very dependent on the IP sale and licensing income. We have one big complex deal announced (but impossible to tell the profit impact from the details revealed) and we know that there will be some actual Solvay royalty income this year as well.

[sikhthetech] 20/10/2021 17:34

1gw,

No TU today then. Another perfect opportunity missed. No idea of how they are trading given lockdowns eased.. That is pretty crucial missed opportunity given how their trading is impacted by lockdowns and covid....


Last year during the early months of pandemic, they had no problem publishing monthly TU until trading slowed down (summer lull), just before the Midas Tip in August last year.

In terms of seizing the opportunity when Midas tip was published, I agree with the BoD, they should not be pumping the shares based on newspaper tips.

So normal service resumes. Back to being enthusiastic about prospects and more jam tomorrow.

[the ghost who walks] 20/10/2021 17:02

Thanks 1gw

[football] 20/10/2021 16:26

that's a new outlet today

[effortless cool] 20/10/2021 16:10

Thanks, 1gw, appreciate the AGM update.

[1gw] 20/10/2021 16:03

Another good AGM, well worth the trip I think for the few who bothered (although many more turned up than did to the Enteq AGM I went to in the same room last month).

The longest discussion was around my question on communication with retail shareholders. DT indulged me on this and it was very clear that I was in a minority (of 1?) in the room in terms of believing an opportunity had been missed following the Midas-induced shareprice spike by not adjusting the communication strategy to try to maintain the interest of at least some of those who bought in at that time. That opportunity, in my mind, was around the option value of a relatively high shareprice in terms of facilitating an acquisition (using paper) should one or more come along while the shareprice was "high" rather than "low". The counter argument was that the shareprice would have decayed pretty much the same anyway (given the short-term focus of many who follow tips and the general sell-off in stocks seen as beneficiaries of the pandemic environment) and probably the sort of acquisition that might come along could be funded out of existing cash resources. Any option value in terms of potential acquisitions has to be offset against the real cash (and management time) cost of additional resource put into communication.

So don't expect much change in the communication strategy anytime soon and take advantage of what opportunities there are (AGM, IMC meetings around interims and finals) to hear the company's presentations and ask questions. I did ask specifically about how many people watched the IMC session and was told around 70 - which was a lot more than I would have guessed.

Other than that, there was some discussion of the US, with DT clearly believing that the recently-announced IRI deal is a very good one for byotrol and frustrated that he cannot reveal more of the particulars (because of confidentiality restrictions). He appears to be very happy with the distributor they have lined up for the professional sales. I asked whether we could expect to see a byotrol Actizone product on sale in the US in the next few years and while not ruling it out, it sounded like this was not a high probability outcome. The byotrol24 experience has clarified for byotrol how much it would be likely to cost them to get a product well established there and so they are likely to stay at arms length and enjoy the returns from the IRI (B24) and Solvay (Actizone) deals rather than rush to launch an Actizone product there themselves. TF made an interesting observation about the long-term attractiveness of residual cleaning claims based on hydrocarbon-derived polymers (which I guess the Solvay one must be). So perhaps not a stretch to think that byotrol R&D is looking at other more "sustainable" ways to get residual claims as a "third generation" following byotrol24 (1G) and actizone (2G).

We touched on ownership of supply chain. DT made the point that with the background in supply chain ownership (Unilever and BPI) sitting on the board, there was no enthusiasm to move in that direction for byotrol with supply chain ownership generally being seen as more of a cost liability than a flexibility asset.

As football noted, some discussion around the future in terms of both the virology lab and the seaweed project. It sounded like the seaweed project continues to advance with the Liverpool University team having very recently worked out the mode of action. byotrol is in early-stage discussions with 2 large multinationals, one pharma-based and one more OTC. TF is a strong believer in the value of the virology lab.

And finally, I tried my luck and asked if sale of the quat-free sanitiser technology would be the next deal (given it was the other "run for cash" technology identified in the IMC presentation). Apparently this technology may have a new lease of life, in Europe at least, due to an element of growing opposition to the use of quats on food preparation surfaces (as I understood it). So it sounded like the byotrol jury might be reconsidering what to do with this asset.

E&OE.

[football] 20/10/2021 13:44

There was no training updating with last year's AGM meeting so what makes you think there will be one this year?Probably best wait for 1gw an analysis of the AGM as he did have most of questions in the Q&A Has for me it's trying to read between the lines Nick look like you didn't want to be there David came across knowledgeable and tried answering all all questions but did you use the phrase confidentiality so couldn't say a lotTrevor what's the one bright spark talking about Seaweed development and about the company, couple of times David add to rain him a bit and say not imminent but in the future.Nick is working on setting up a separate company for all the seaweed stuff but that's not imminent and will be a company within byotrol not a company outside of it.Seem to be talking to a couple of large companies to go into a joint venture.Haven't seen it before or if it was said before but guaranteed minimum payments are about 30% of what they expect when royalties starts to come in.For buying more shares or selling I've heard nothing this way me either way apart from the seaweed stuff which may be big but some way off

[sikhthetech] 20/10/2021 12:33

1gw,

"On the lack of AGM statement, I suspect it is too early to comment meaningfully on 1H financials."

That's complete nonsense.
TU contain forecasts, so why would they need auditors?.


They had NO problems giving a TU 22days after fy end, 'subject to audit' so there's no excuse for no TU this morning.
They even included revenue from licensing & IP.


"subject to audit, are expected to be"
"Turnover is expected to be in excess of GBP11m and adjusted EBITDA over GBP1.7m (2020: GBP6.1m and GBP0.3m respectively)"

"Revenue for the year will include a contribution of over GBP0.9m from licensing and intellectual property transactions, including multi-year agreements with material guaranteed minimum sales and/or annual royalty payments. "

[football] 20/10/2021 09:58

going be to close but if the 10.14 is on time should make it by 10.54

lets hope it's free coffe and cake